UDEV: Can I enter? - Printable Version
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UDEV: Can I enter? - aschearer - Dec 21, 2008 10:31 PM
Hey, sorry if this is a double post I'm not sure what happened to my last one...
I wanted to know whether my game would qualify for the contest. I'd really like to enter but I'm concerned about rule #4 specifically:
Quote:Entries with screenshots, movies, or any playable form (i.e. beta, demo, release, etc), released to the public or outside testers before December 2, 2008 at 12:01 AM GMT are ineligible.
In my case, the game had a prototype available for download on the Slick forums a while ago. Keep in mind that this was a prototype not a beta, but since the rules aren't clear I thought I'd ask.
My second concern is that my game is open source and has been publicly hosted during its entire life. It can be found here: Shade. Obviously this means that anyone can download it and compile it (and in fact I have made it easy to do so). That said, I haven't received any feedback through the project site -- the only feedback I have received has been through the Slick forums.
Let me know what the consensus is, I really hope I can participate!
UDEV: Can I enter? - stevejohnson - Dec 21, 2008 11:29 PM
You can participate, but not with that game, unless you start the code completely from scratch.
UDEV: Can I enter? - aschearer - Dec 22, 2008 02:24 AM
Can you elaborate? I am the original author of the code.
UDEV: Can I enter? - DoG - Dec 22, 2008 03:36 AM
No, you *can* enter with that game, provided it's been GPL'd or less restrictive. I can't get at the github page for the moment, so I can't quite check.
Rule 5 means that since your project has been open source, you can use it in your entry, but only if your entry is different enough from what existed prior to the start of the competition. If you just make minor modifications, it doesn't qualify.
UDEV: Can I enter? - Najdorf - Dec 22, 2008 03:44 AM
You could have, now you can't.
Unless you convincingly declare "It's just inspired by my older game, I rewrote it from scratch without looking, I swear!" while making a sufficiently spectacular gesture.
UDEV: Can I enter? - aschearer - Dec 22, 2008 06:18 AM
Thanks for the replies though it's not what I wanted to hear. Can you guys please elaborate for why I am not qualified? Surely rule #5 wasn't meant to prohibit an open source project itself from entering? In light of the spirit of sharing code/process which I take to be fundamental to the contest that would strike me as a very odd arrangement.
Najdorf, why could I have entered it? What has changed which bans me?
UDEV: Can I enter? - DoG - Dec 22, 2008 06:31 AM
Does anybody actually read the bloody rules? Same applies here as for http://www.idevgames.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16289
UDEV: Can I enter? - Najdorf - Dec 22, 2008 08:06 AM
aschearer Wrote:Najdorf, why could I have entered it? What has changed which bans me?
Now that you posted we know your game is not new
UDEV: Can I enter? - AndyKorth - Dec 22, 2008 08:16 AM
DoG Wrote:No, you *can* enter with that game, provided it's been GPL'd or less restrictive. I can't get at the github page for the moment, so I can't quite check.
Correct. The exact rule line is "the entry should have substantial original material apart from such public content."
So if he has a prototype that can be compiled - I'd expect something substantially different... Like a game with a menu, title screen, a UI when you're in the game, some sort of instructions, and bundled up in an application bundle so it qualifies in that matter. I'd also expect some gameplay changes.
Taking an open source game prototype and turning it into a real game should involve enough changes to count as 'substantial original material'- that's my experience in turning say our ScribBall prototype into a real game.
UDEV: Can I enter? - aschearer - Dec 22, 2008 08:26 AM
DoG can you please explain how this is like that other case you linked? My game hasn't been released before and this isn't a rewrite of an existing game. What was released was a prototype demonstrating the core gameplay mechanic -- as a prototype it shouldn't qualify as a game.
Obviously what I plan to submit has been almost completely rewritten (since you shouldn't really use prototype code for production), extended, and fleshed out to create a real game.
UDEV: Can I enter? - aschearer - Dec 22, 2008 08:54 AM
Surely I don't violate rule #5...
Quote:All entries should be substantially the teamâ€™s original creation. Entries may use publicly available libraries, frameworks, engines, artwork, audio, and other resources as part of their projects. However, (a) such use must be acknowledged in the gameâ€™s credits, (b) the entry should have substantial original material apart from such public content.
The work is entirely my own creation -- this rule appears meant to apply to attempts to games which fork an existing OS game or which use existing game frameworks/libraries. This seems to be borne out by the FAQ related to the rule.
UDEV: Can I enter? - EvolPenguin - Dec 22, 2008 09:01 AM
The purpose of these rules is to create an equal footing for everyone, as the whole point is to make a game within 3 months, not for a year before the contest and three months during. Do you feel it's fair to have a head-start on everyone?
UDEV: Can I enter? - stevejohnson - Dec 22, 2008 09:09 AM
EvolPenguin speaks the truth. The idea is to make a game in a short time, not just enter some game you were already working on.
UDEV: Can I enter? - aschearer - Dec 22, 2008 09:16 AM
Look I am all for fairness but there are a couple points to your remark.
1. No where in the rules does it explicitly limit development time to three months
2. Nor does it say that in the FAQ
3. We are not talking about a year + 3 months but 3 + months
4. I was planning on finishing development on the 1st anyway (meaning a total 3 months development time.)
5. If we're all for fairness is it fair to reject my project on the basis that I started it before I knew about this contest? Even though I am making an honest effort to conform?
6. While we're on the topic of fairness, if you have 4 developers and I work alone is 3 months development time for you equal to 3 months for me?
Ultimately, I am sensitive to the issue of fairness (that's why I'm here asking!), but I also believe that my project is within the spirit of the contest/rules. Additionally, as I said above I would be happy to consider ceasing development altogether, as was my plan before I came across this contest, on the first or something similar. Certainly it wouldn't be hard to hold me accountable to this, either, as you can view the entire development history of my project in the link above.
UDEV: Can I enter? - stevejohnson - Dec 22, 2008 09:42 AM
Quote:...the game had a prototype available for download on the Slick forums a while ago.
Quote:Entries with screenshots, movies, or any playable form (i.e. beta, demo, release, etc), released to the public or outside testers before December 2, 2008 at 12:01 AM GMT are ineligible.I really don't see how you can reconcile those. A "prototype" is a "playable form." It seems like we're being picky, but the rules are very clear about that.