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Leopard Usage - BeyondCloister - Nov 29, 2007 04:25 PM

With Leopard having been out for a while now I was wondering what new features it offers you have been using or not. Also is there anything you miss from Tiger?

* Screen sharing - been useful for using my MacBook still running Tiger from my MacBook Pro.
* Reminders / To Do in Mail - thought it was useful to begin with but without working iCal not so useful now
* Spaces - I gave this a go but not found a use for it so gave up on it
* Cover Flow in Finder - very nice and very useful when added with Quick Look
* Stacks - I've found this useful with the Downloads and Applications
* Dashboard - never used it in Tiger and not used it Leopard yet
* Time Machine - not tried this yet

What I miss from Tiger:
* Ability to use iCal with .Mac
* Working RSS feeds
* Being able to use Photoshop 7

Leopard Usage - FlamingHairball - Nov 29, 2007 04:41 PM

I like the new Mail, Spaces, Stacks, and the new UI.

Leopard Usage - AndyKorth - Nov 29, 2007 04:48 PM

Quick look has changed my life.... in a fairly small but definitely positive way.

Leopard Usage - AnotherJake - Nov 29, 2007 05:40 PM


- Spaces is really handy for me
- Quick look is also handy
- I like the new icons
- I like the new dock
- Rounded menus are cool
- Transparent menu bar is pretty cool too

Here are only two of my dislikes. I'll spare you the rest of my zillion complaints:

- I don't like Stacks. I much preferred being able to navigate any folder in the dock by right-clicking on it. If they just improved Stacks for easier navigation then I might warm up to it, or at least let me choose, but this is probably one of the worst design decisions I can recall Apple making -- taking away a really convenient feature and replacing it with one that is merely eye-candy but utterly useless in comparison.

- Why is the firewall off by default? W... T... F...


- Haven't tried Time Machine yet because of general instability fears from the OS itself, but it seems like a good idea if I ever get confident that Apple didn't screw it up.

Overall I feel I've lost trust in Apple putting out a quality OS. I'm not trying to troll. I honestly feel like Steve Jobs has recently begun smoking out with Ballmer and Billy. At the very least it is painfully obvious that Steve or whomever was the voice of reason at Apple has completely ignored the OS division lately. And as a last note: I am one who loves change and new stuff. This OS version just stinks of bad decisions and instabilities. I definitely don't hate it, but IMHO this one scores as a D- at this point.

PS -- The Photoshop 7 incompatibility really sucks bad, but that's the way Adobe has become in recent years. I am now actively avoiding Adobe products.

Leopard Usage - OneSadCookie - Nov 29, 2007 05:54 PM

AnotherJake Wrote:- Why is the firewall off by default? W... T... F...

Why wouldn't it be? It was never on by default in previous OSes, and isn't exactly a major security issue...

Things I like
* Time Machine (though I haven't wanted something it's archived, so it's hard to say whether it's good or not)
* Screen Sharing (love it)
* New network browser (just works, the way it always should have)

Things I hate
* Just about everything else they've done Smile

Leopard Usage - FlamingHairball - Nov 29, 2007 05:55 PM

I agree with all the likes, and I agree with the Stacks dislike; but I don't really understand your aggravation about the new OS.Annoyed

Leopard Usage - AnotherJake - Nov 29, 2007 06:30 PM

Hairball183 Wrote:I agree with all the likes, and I agree with the Stacks dislike; but I don't really understand your aggravation about the new OS.
You probably wouldn't understand why I generally think they did a bad job with this release because as I noted, "I'll spare you the rest of my zillion complaints". What upsets me the most is that I've had lots of crashes -- Finder crashes, Dock crashes, SYSTEM CRASHES... To be fair, I strongly suspect that the system crashes were the result of a 3rd party tool I was using which apparently was using mach inject. But I've encountered general instabilities and stupidness in other areas as well. Just one tiny issue that comes to mind was with just getting Mail to launch the first time. I still haven't figured out how to do that without putting in valid email servers, but I do have a habit of overlooking the obvious. Do I *have* to go through a brain-dead setup wizard? Why does Mail assume I want ssl by default? Why is that setting so hard to find out that it needs to be turned off? It sat there and tested connections forever. It didn't work. I had to look it up online to figure out why I wasn't able to get Mail going for me and it turned out to be a bug in Mail. How do I get the Finder to NOT automatically connect to local servers it's already been connected to? .mac *refuses* to correctly synch bookmarks with Leopard. Oh there are other issues with .mac as well... No seriously, I could fill three pages with little stupid things I've encountered. Overall it's a nice OS, sure, but compared to Apple's previous releases, like I said, it is painfully obvious that whoever used to be in charge of attention to detail was not working at Apple's OS department during Leopard development. ... please don't even get me started on the developer tools ...

As a side note, while I'm thinking about it, isn't kill -9 supposed to work with xcode sub processes too? I've had some issues with getting rid of some apps that crash and won't go away until I quit Xcode in Leopard.

OneSadCookie Wrote:Why wouldn't it be? It was never on by default in previous OSes, and isn't exactly a major security issue...

I'm not the only one complaining about it. Just do a Google for yourself. Here's a random link for you:

Leopard Usage - OneSadCookie - Nov 29, 2007 06:55 PM

That article is not discussing what you said...

Leopard Usage - AnotherJake - Nov 29, 2007 07:05 PM

OneSadCookie Wrote:That article is not discussing what you said...

Quote:Unlike with Windows Vista, the Apple firewall is not enabled by default and must be enabled by the end user.

Well, the article does discuss other issues with it, but... There are a slew of similar articles. I said that was a random one. Google it yourself if you don't like that one. geez...

Maybe you could explain why it isn't a security issue.

Leopard Usage - FlamingHairball - Nov 29, 2007 07:16 PM

I have encountered several bugs, but as I don't use .mac, I don't know about that.

Leopard Usage - Duane - Nov 29, 2007 07:46 PM

Well, it's not a big issue unless you're on a big local network, i.e. a college campus. At home, though, a router should be more than enough.

I'm interested; how is spaces compared to virtue/desktop manager?

Leopard Usage - OneSadCookie - Nov 29, 2007 08:17 PM

The firewall being off is only an issue if there are vulnerable services running, and there shouldn't be anything like that on by default... being able to connect to a port is of absolutely no use to an attacker if there's no program listening on the other end to be compromised.

Spaces is crap. It's perhaps less crap than the hacky alternatives that existed before, but it's still crap.

Leopard Usage - AnotherJake - Nov 29, 2007 08:30 PM

OneSadCookie Wrote:Spaces is crap. It's perhaps less crap than the hacky alternatives that existed before, but it's still crap.

What don't you like about it?

I have my middle mouse click setup to activate spaces and it has really cleaned up my workspace. The only thing I've noticed (that I remember at the moment) is that when opening documents which are assigned to an application running in another space, that document doesn't open in front as it should -- yet another painfully obvious and stupid bug, but otherwise I can't imagine not liking Spaces that much.

What would you do differently, or instead of Spaces to organize open windows?

Leopard Usage - OneSadCookie - Nov 29, 2007 11:06 PM

For me to use Spaces, it'd have to follow a couple of simple rules that it currently flouts at every opportunity:

1) when a new window is created, if its application is not bound to a space, it should open on the current space.
2) if a window is activated, it moves to the current space

Things behave a little less frustratingly if you bind applications to spaces, but that makes no sense for Finder, Terminal, Safari, SubEthaEdit.

I find myself constantly being whisked off to some irrelevant space, and having to retrieve a wayward window and bring it back where it belongs. I spend far more time managing windows than I save from better compartmentalization.

I've been a "hide apps you're not using" guy since 10.0.0, and generally work actively with a small number of apps (5 or so) so there's not even any incentive to change.

Leopard Usage - Cochrane - Nov 29, 2007 11:18 PM

Things I love:
- Quick Look
- Spaces (it has it's limitations, but especially on my 12" iBook, it's still really nice to have)
- The Network browser. First time for me that network browsing actually works, both for Mac and PC.
- Safari 3. Alright, I've been using the Beta before, but it's still great. For that matter, the new PDF view in Safari is also a nice touch.
- Preview has some rather nice features.
- The Network settings have improved (and added a new stupid bug. Why won't it remember the Windows workgroup unless I choose a location?)
- Random backgrounds from an iPhoto album work (they didn't in Tiger).

What I miss:
- Photoshop 7 (I have CS3 student edition on the way, but it's still money I would have preferred not to spend)
- The old behaviour for folders in the dock. Stacks look better, but for just about any purpose, they work worse.
- My Scanner. I don't know what happened, but SANE cannot communicate with it, and I'm way to cheap to buy scanning software. I hope this one will be resolved with future versions of SANE.
- Classic. I know, I don't need it 95% of the time, but I still have SimCity 2000 and a few Tomb Raider games lying around. When I buy a new Mac, I'll downgrade one of my old ones to Tiger again just so that I can have Classic.
- My Xcode windows. Seriously, where are they? Can't find them on any of my spaces. I do have a feeling that Xcode 3 tries to be clever with Spaces in some ways and fails.