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Smash Brothers - moonliterhythm - Dec 24, 2006 09:15 PM

How hard do you suppose it would be to create a Smash Brothers-like game on Mac? For those of you who are unfamiliar, it's a 2-D fighting game with a 3-D graphics engine -- very fast paced, action packed, graphics heavy.

The two biggest concerns I'd have would be: network compatiblity (1 second delay on WarCraft << one second delay in a fighting game) and playability (keyboard + mouse -- how to use them effectively without drawing away from the game experience).

But aside from those concerns, in technical terms, what would it take? I'm assuming of course a power comp language like C or C++, but that's about all I know really -- what more is there? Would anyone be able to outline some of the key elements in the game and a possible time spectrum?


Smash Brothers - Max - Dec 25, 2006 08:31 AM

Honestly, don't do it. 2D fighting games don't work on computers, because of the controls. Players want gamepads to play, not keyboards.


Smash Brothers - moonliterhythm - Dec 25, 2006 01:18 PM

but what if you did something clever that you could only do with a keyboard/mouse? for example, i'm not sure if i'd want to trade in the keyboard/mouse setup when playing FPS (and i've played plenty of FPS on gamepad -- a la Halo 2). i was thinking, since it is 2-D, mouse motions, if captured fluidly, might add an entire dimension to how well the game plays.


Smash Brothers - Leisure Suit Lurie - Dec 25, 2006 04:25 PM

Max Wrote:Honestly, don't do it. 2D fighting games don't work on computers, because of the controls. Players want gamepads to play, not keyboards.

And people can't get gamepads for their Mac because...?


Smash Brothers - Max - Dec 25, 2006 05:01 PM

Leisure Suit Lurie Wrote:And people can't get gamepads for their Mac because...?
People can get gamepads for their Mac. But who's going to buy a gamepad when only a handful of games support this type of device?

Maybe of interest. I've played a fighting game for computers - a first-person boxing game. The punches work according to the movement and the speed of the mouse. Move the mouse up for an uppercut, sideways for side punches, etc. The arrows are used to dodge the punches of the opponent. It's quite fun and well done.


Smash Brothers - lightbringer - Dec 25, 2006 05:14 PM

Then it's settled, we must all make gamepad reliant games to encourage the adoption of gamepads for the Mac!


Smash Brothers - unknown - Dec 25, 2006 05:18 PM

and this may well or may well not be useful for using gamepads Grin
http://www.idevgames.com/forum/showthread.php?p=123770


Smash Brothers - moonliterhythm - Dec 25, 2006 11:12 PM

if it's convenient, can we get back to discussing the topic at hand?


Smash Brothers - JustinFic - Dec 26, 2006 11:55 PM

moonliterhythm Wrote:But aside from those concerns, in technical terms, what would it take? I'm assuming of course a power comp language like C or C++, but that's about all I know really -- what more is there? Would anyone be able to outline some of the key elements in the game and a possible time spectrum?

Those concerns are actually big gotchas- not all Mac gamers will have a gamepad, and using a keyboard+mouse setup means the only way to do multiplayer would be over network. And after trying to play Street Fighter 2 over Xbox Live, any kind of lag in a fighting game absolutely kills the experience.

To get around that, I would design the game and controls such that you have to play with more sweeping motions instead of the precision that Street Fighter and Smash Bros require. That way when you have that 100 ms lag it doesn't turn gameplay into a button mash.

But aside from that, here's a list of what a Smash Bros-esque game would need:

- 3D graphics (engine, model loader, keyframe animation, as well as the models and animations themselves)
- Platformer physics
- Collision detection (2D fighting games use hit rectangles, I imagine Smash Bros does too. Don't bother with 3D collision detection)
- Other game systems (audio, input control, game logic, etc)
- Network Multiplayer
- Application layer (window creation, menus, etc)
- Game design (balance of characters with respect to speed, power, attack rate, range, recovery speed, attack priority, so on)

If this is your first project, I would actually suggest you cut 3D graphics and network multiplayer, and create a single player game with 2D sprites. Cutting those two things alone will save you 90% of your coding time. I also suggest you come up with a keyboard + mouse control scheme, as opposed to using 10+ keys on the keyboard or requiring a gamepad.

Along with C/C++, you'll need to use APIs for graphics and your application layer. I started with OpenGL for graphics and SDL for the application layer- it was a very easy combination for me, and doesn't limit you much in the long run.


Smash Brothers - StealthyCoin - Jan 17, 2007 07:04 PM

How so with the mouse/keypad controls? The only controls I can think of are the arrow keys and then having zxc toward up down or away from enemy do do different things.

But I guess that wouldnt cover multiple opponents


Smash Brothers - Joseph Duchesne - Jan 17, 2007 08:07 PM

I just thought I would point out that I've played SSB on a mac using an emulator and I'm now better at SSB on keyboard than on the controller (and I have a logitech wingman, so it's not for lack of trying).


Smash Brothers - Bjoernke - Jan 18, 2007 08:51 PM

When i was reading about using keyboard & mouse to steer a character in 2d, i instantly thought of Dark Castle.
The basic of Dark Castle is a platformer: You enter a screen, and have to leave it (Normally in the opposite corner of the screen) or get an item (Like a key). There are opponents, most often rats, bats or knight-like guards. You shoot them with rocks, which you collect from bags, lying on the floor. The genius is, that you don't just shoot ahead, like in most other games. Instead you shoot into the direction you point the mouse! The character would lift his arm in a nazi-like fashion, so you could easily see into which direction you'll shoot. So you are constantly adjusting your aim, which is especially nasty when the opponents close in on you (on the other hand: the closer, the easier to hit them). the keybord is mainly used to go left and right, as well as climb ladders and stairs, or duck (could the character jump? I don't remember). There's also an action key, to pick stuff up.

What i intended with this nostalgia-induced rambling is the following suggestion: move characters with the keyboard, shoot into direction of mouse, by clicking mousebutton.

Of course, if you don't plan on having shooting, i just wastet precious time of your life LOL


Smash Brothers - igame3d - Jan 18, 2007 09:22 PM

That sounds like the game Bungie published from Crackdotcom called Abuse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_(computer_game)

Trippy cool gameplay...and now that I think of it was that character the grandfather of Master Chief ?

SDL MAC OS X Version found here


Smash Brothers - Frank C. - Jan 18, 2007 10:44 PM

igame3d Wrote:...and now that I think of it was that character the grandfather of Master Chief ?

Marathon was the grand daddy of all things Halo - The Abuse guy was a pretty good Predator rip off though Wink


Smash Brothers - ThemsAllTook - Jan 19, 2007 07:23 AM

Bjoernke Wrote:(could the character jump? I don't remember)
Yup. Three different kinds of jump, in fact: A regular just from just hitting the space bar, a longer horizontal jump when pressing the forward key, and a downward jump when pressing the down key.