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When is an entry not a game? - Carlos Camacho - Nov 10, 2004 07:34 PM

I have mentioned that with my schedule, I've only tried one game so far. So, I haven't been able to "police" the entries, and prod the developers. Well, I prod them about other things. Wink

In our rules, I don't beleive we have a rule stating that a game must have this and that, in order to be qualified to enter. This might be because with some many genres, it might be hard to write up what qualifies as a game. ie, "The game must have gameplay that lasts more than 30 seconds" or "The game must contain at least one playable level." That won't work with all games, right?

Here is why I ask. As uDevGames grows, it is bound to attract people outside our community of upstanding developers. These people may want to use the contest for their own wicked plans, like promoting their web-design business. I'm all for self-promottion, in fact, it is part of the concept of uDevGames. But the idea is that you are getting prmotion by the hard work and the results you put forth.

The other area of concern is that some devs may be tempted to enter an application that pretty much does nothing, yet, as they have qualified under our current rules, they will get some prizes which we offer all who enter. True, those prizes tend to be small things, but still, it kind of irks me a bit.

I don't think this is a serious problem, but it is something we need to think about. Hopefully you all have tried all the games, and will let me know if we have any of the two cases this year. (Please be nice though in the public forum.)

Any thoughts are welcomed.


When is an entry not a game? - igame3d - Nov 10, 2004 08:25 PM

"The game must have gameplay that lasts more than 30 seconds"

I think that has to count for something. If the application launches, and mashing every control known to man does nothing, then I don't think that qualifies as a "game".

Can you think of a game that doesn't have 30 seconds of gameplay?
Besides maybe a carnival hustle.


When is an entry not a game? - Carlos Camacho - Nov 10, 2004 10:47 PM

>Can you think of a game that doesn't have 30 seconds of gameplay?
E.T. on the Atari. Grin


When is an entry not a game? - sealfin - Nov 11, 2004 02:06 AM

Quote:Can you think of a game that doesn't have 30 seconds of gameplay?
More literally, Wario Ware on the GBA?


When is an entry not a game? - ERaZer - Nov 11, 2004 06:38 AM

sealfin Wrote:More literally, Wario Ware on the GBA?

Sure, each mini game has less then 30 seconds of gameplay, but put togheter it's much more.
Or?


When is an entry not a game? - Hog - Nov 11, 2004 08:36 AM

interesting question. one might think that since you let people rate the game on gameplay that should not be an issue at all, because practically something that is not a game has a gameplay value of <= 0. but it's not always failsafe to let commoners decide. you can have a long discussion on whether diablo 2 is a game or not.


When is an entry not a game? - Najdorf - Nov 11, 2004 09:25 AM

I dont understand why you would worry for such an unlikely thing...

I mean, it is much more probable (and about equally damaging for the contest) that someone submit a really crappy game, but you still dont want to discourage new devs saying "look your game is too crappy to be listed". You must have some faith people will be "nice". If a programmer wants to be "mean", he will write a virus or hack your server, not write a game that is not actually a game but just a program in order to breach through the rules of the contest Rasp


When is an entry not a game? - BeyondCloister - Nov 11, 2004 09:26 AM

c_dev Wrote:interesting question. one might think that since you let people rate the game on gameplay that should not be an issue at all, because practically something that is not a game has a gameplay value of <= 0. but it's not always failsafe to let commoners decide. you can have a long discussion on whether diablo 2 is a game or not.

The lack of game play may give them 0 in one category.
However poor / non existant game play in theory would not stop the program winning best graphics if what is on display is the best graphics.
The same goes for the audio side of things.

It opens up the whole voting debate though on whether or not people vote low for everything when it is just really one thing that should be marked down low (such as resized screen or whatever).

However recent history shows that voters cannot be trusted...


When is an entry not a game? - Zwilnik - Nov 11, 2004 09:37 AM

Just have a rule that says "The judges reserve the right to disqualify any entry for whatever reason they see fit".


When is an entry not a game? - BeyondCloister - Nov 11, 2004 09:51 AM

That rule would be okay for next year, but the tone of the first post seemed to indicate that someone had paid for their entry this year and submited such a non game. That entry would not be covered.


When is an entry not a game? - PowerMacX - Nov 11, 2004 01:12 PM

About giving a game all 1's: I'm downloading all games right now, so I can burn them on a CD and take them home to try them on my Mac, but I couldn't resist the temptation to try some of them on this machine (a 2x1.8 G5). One game only showed a black screen, so I thought: I guess I'll give him all 1's, but then I saw the 3 categories and realized that in fact I didn't have any info on the quality of it's graphics, gameplay or music/sound! So I decided to give the game another try at home before voting. That was a good thing, because later, another two games showed the same problem (black screen), so I'm suspecting it has something to do with this particular G5 or monitor.

Now, looking at the sheer quantity of games, how much time did you guys put playing/testing each one?


When is an entry not a game? - skyhawk - Nov 11, 2004 01:18 PM

if it was a not too good of a game, I played "1 round" or the equivalent of that. The addictive games, I played until I unlocked as much stuff as possible (this is another good point, unlocking new things in the game).
longest played game was Snowball at 2-3 hours, shortest played game was shards and bumper cars at about 5 minutes each


When is an entry not a game? - MattDiamond - Nov 11, 2004 02:17 PM

There were two games last year that might be interesting examples to this discussion. Neither was really finished. Don't remember the names, but one was a Wizardry-style maze with a couple of locations you could get to that suggested some background. That was all. The other actually got a prize for originality- you tried to alter the climate of a planet through celestial events. I don't know that anyone got anywhere with it; you just kept throwing crap at the planet to try and lower the temperature and raise the water content. After a few hundred clicks I got tired of this and quit. But highly original.

When thinking about the "what is a game" question one should probably decide first whether these entries should have been disqualified or not. They certainly wouldn't pass some of the rules that people have proposed so far. That may be desirable, but it may not.


When is an entry not a game? - BeyondCloister - Nov 11, 2004 02:23 PM

I really liked the planet building game you refer to. It was a game in the sense that combinations of things caused different things to happen and you had to work out what those were in a kind of puzzle way.


When is an entry not a game? - igame3d - Nov 11, 2004 03:06 PM

MattDiamond Wrote:After a few hundred clicks I got tired of this and quit. But highly original.

Hmm I seem to recall you winning once for a game I got tired of and quit in less than 20 clicks.

In this kind of instance, I do not think that would make a valid rule, since it relies on personal taste.


The game mentioned in the previous post was the first game the dev has ever finished and he was working alone, really shooting for the stars, so to speak.
After the nerve wracking experience of the contest he has given up entirely on making games, at least that was his condition when I spoke to him a few months ago. iDevGames downtime and the disintergration of the support mechanism provided by the once easy to access chat room also played a part his waning interest in making games for the Mac.