uDG 08: Mono-based entries allowed?

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Joined: 2002.04
Post: #1
Note from diordna because the original post was extremely confusing: This post represents a now-deleted thread that was inappropriately posted to the udevgames.com Developer Diaries 2008 forum. It has been reposted in the appropriate place, albeit without the relevant usernames attached.


I’m sorry to add this (obviously off-topic) question into this board, but over at idevgames.com my email address is not accepted for registration and I’ve gotten no reply from using the contact form. With every day the question remains unanswered, the users will lose time they could put into their entry, so it would be good if this is answered asap.

“Anyone can enter using any development tool that produces double-clickable, native Mac OS X applications.”

Using OpenTK or the Tao Framework it is possible to create cross-platform games which are “double-clickable”, assuming Mono and appropriate OpenGL/OpenAL drivers are installed. The way I understood the above rule, you do not want any emulator- or browser-based entries for the contest. However Mono-based games are not restricted to one platform, the games run on Linux or Windows aswell without compiling again. (that is the strength of those 2 libraries)

Q: Are Mono based games accepted in this contest?

Not familiar with Mono, but java and python games are allowed, which have the same features (double clickable without needing to be recompiled)...

However the game must be able to run on a stock mac installation, ie: anything it needs should be included in the download. The user cannot have to download anything.
Including the 90MB Mono installer into a 20MB contest entry is ... tough. Including the OpenTK or Tao dependencies into the package is obvious and not a problem, they’re less than 1MB compressed.

I take it the “stock mac installation” does not include Mono?
I wouldn’t know for sure, but I would assume it isn’t, it doesn’t look like it would be.

There is some discussion, though not much more than that, of asking to have the limit removed over at iDevGames. See threads here: http://www.idevgames.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16217 and here (with a poll): http://www.idevgames.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16254 .

Still though, a 90MB add on just to get the environment to the play the game (even if it is included) might turn off some voters, it would for me, so be aware of that. Though if you’re not entering to win, but rather just to show off and have fun, then it might be worth it.

edit for the Admin: Maybe this should be moved do a different forum? This is supposed to be diaries/blogs, not discussion. Dunno how strict you wanted to keep this organized, but there’s not many other forum options.
I’m one of the developers of OpenTK and simply trying to evaluate if it’s practicable to suggest our users to participate in this contest. Although I’m not involved in Tao, I’d create a post in their forums aswell.

Currently there’s several aspects that prevent me from doing so:

1.a) Entries may not be considered by voters, solely due to their size in MB.
1.b) Textures and Music are big. Even if the size restriction is relaxed, 1.a still applies.
1.c) It boils down to that this contest is about who can make the best game with fewest kb.
2.a) Even if we come up with a stripped down version of Mono that can be packaged together with the games, this will be in the tens of MBs in size. Although the “double-clickable” rule would be satisfied, voters would repeatedly download the same Mono components which would quickly exceed the size of the 90MB installer from the official site.
2.b) OpenTK users would have to pay for the stripped Mono download, although there’s a free high-speed download provided by Novell.
2.c) Games could not take advantage of future improvements of Mono, e.g. SSE optimizations. We cannot ask our users to re-release games every time Mono is updated.
3) Most prizes are only interesting for Mac users. (this is the least of all the issues, but it should be mentioned aswell)
4) Contest entry must be released as open source. This prevents any cheat-free networked multiplayer games, or continuation of their game into a commercial product.

I’m afraid there is simply no match. No hard feelings and no problem either.

Thanks for your replies and time, and good luck with your entry Smile
The size restriction has been lifted. Also, a 20 MB limit was hardly tiny.
It is not against the rules to provide two versions of your game, one that assumes Mono is already installed.
Well, this is a Mac game programming contest.
Have you read the FAQ? Relevant sections below.
Also, it was inappropriate to post here, as this forum is exclusively for developer diaries. I don’t know if Carlos has been ignoring the contact form, but either way, posting here was not a good idea. I suggest you get an email address from a provider that tends to produce less spam so that the forum will accept it.

Carlos A. Camacho,
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Joined: 2002.04
Post: #2

I can't make heads or tails of this. Either you're developing multiple personalities or this is a a random pasting of emails from people and responses? Just tell the people to make a forum account and ask their questions here. You have better things to do than be a middleman.

In regards to the question I *think* might be being asked, yes you can make a game that uses whatever the heck libraries you want as long as you can legally use them. The key is that if they're not installed in a clean copy of Mac OS X 10.5.5, they need to bundle them along with the game. Including an installer for the libraries along with the game does not count and will be disqualified. It's really simple!

It's nothing to do with Mono. The same issues come up with SDL and OpenIL and all sorts of frameworks people use to build games. Mono can be stripped down and bundled with a game. A compressed Unity game (which bundles Mono) is something like 4 megabytes per architecture.

This question is answered in another thread, too!

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Post: #3
Carlos just cold-pasted an entire thread that some guy had posted to the Dev Diaries forum because the iDG forum rejected his email address. That thread has been deleted.

My web site - Games, music, Python stuff
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