Corrupted FBO, can people download my app and tell me if it breaks for you?

Member
Posts: 260
Joined: 2005.05
Post: #16
OneSadCookie Wrote:Did they even exist a year ago?

FBO is the new standard way to do PBuffers. It doesn't push any harder than a PBuffer; the graphics vendors just chose to implement it only for hardware "current" at the time.

Yes, it's "just" an EXT extension, but it's one that is agreed upon by ATI, NVidia, Apple, etc. -- "promotion" to ARB or the core spec is probably just a matter of time -- not that it's at all relevant. There is no sense in which an ARB extension or a core feature is "better" than any other extension, other than possibly wider availability.
...
There are severe limitations of all current hardware when it comes to rendering into float buffers. Intel GMA 950s don't support it at all; GeForce FXs may have issues with texture targets other than TEXTURE_RECTANGLE_(ARB|EXT|NV). Most hardware has severe limitations on where blending or multisampling is possible.
They did exist one year ago, I'm positive about that, but not on the Mac, and not on ATI. As I recall it, NVidia on Windows was the only way, then came Linux support from NVidia.

The problem is not that it is hard to run (I find them quite comfortable, a nice and workable API - when it works) but that they are so new that the drivers are littered with bugs. I tried an interesting code example that included some workarounds for one hardware, and those workarounds didn't work at all on the other side. I believe that those problems will be fewer over time, and during that process the system will be promoted to higher status. (Surely it should be ARB soon?) I agree that there is no guaranteed correspondence between the standard levels and how well it works, but I'd say there still is some.

Speaking of Intel GMA 950, the conclusion is that it doesn't do shader model 3 (except in software), so it is quite outdated in my book. A lousy GPU to put in the new Macs, I'd say.
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Moderator
Posts: 1,140
Joined: 2005.07
Post: #17
I might also add that FBOs will be easier on the video card than PBuffers, since it doesn't require a separate context. Due to the limitations, though, I will likely use FBOs for 2 applications only: distorted reflections (where a lower precision depth buffer and lack of FSAA probably won't be noticed) and scenes that are purely done by full screen textures from previous operations.
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Luminary
Posts: 5,143
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #18
Ingemar Wrote:Speaking of Intel GMA 950, the conclusion is that it doesn't do shader model 3 (except in software), so it is quite outdated in my book. A lousy GPU to put in the new Macs, I'd say.

You have an odd definition of "outdated"... it's a DX9 part, replacing the DX8 part from the previous mini. Depending on your perspective, it's either better or worse than a GeForce FX 5200 (probably most people will find it better). And it's only in low-end machines. I'm sure everyone would rather that Apple'd chosen an X1300 or a 6200, but I don't think many would be willing to sacrifice a few hundred MHz of CPU clock speed to get that tiny extra benefit...

On Mac OS X, FBOs are still dubious, largely due to the 10.4.3 prerequisite, and lack of EXT_packed_depth_stencil. On other platforms, they are clearly the way to go -- they're not only faster than PBuffers, but easier to use and cross-platform.
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Member
Posts: 260
Joined: 2005.05
Post: #19
By "outdated" I mean that it is old-fashioned in a new computer design. A really up-to-date computer should have a shader model 3 capable GPU.
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Luminary
Posts: 5,143
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #20
Only if cutting-edge graphics is seen as a major purpose of that computer... otherwise the additional cost really can't be justified. I'm certain that once Intel is producing an SM3 integrated graphics part, Apple will happily move to it.
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Member
Posts: 260
Joined: 2005.05
Post: #21
Please, a 6200 is not "cutting edge". Apple has a long history of cheap, non-upgradable lowest-end GPUs, and I find that a problem. I understand that the MacBook competes with other low-end portables, but a poor GPU can shorten the lifespan of a computer quite a bit so from a buyer's point of view it makes those models rather unattractive.

And, to get back to the subject, without SM3, many FBO-using apps will break, and that's not only HDR implementations.
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Luminary
Posts: 5,143
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #22
SM3 is completely irrelevant to FBO... they're entirely unrelated concepts.

If you want a bulky box with a swappable video card in a low-end machine, dude, get a Dell Rasp
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Member
Posts: 567
Joined: 2004.07
Post: #23
crashed;
Code:
Date/Time:      2006-08-03 18:40:39.261 -0400
OS Version:     10.4.7 (Build 8J135)
Report Version: 4

Command: WorldEngine
Path:    /Volumes/Bailey3/ryan/Downloads/2006-08-03/WorldEngine.app/Contents/MacOS/WorldEngine
Parent:  WindowServer [1610]

Version: ??? (1.0)

PID:    1924
Thread: 0

Exception:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes:      KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000000

Thread 0 Crashed:
0   <<00000000>>     0x00000000 0 + 0
1   org.zakariya.worldengine           0x00049f5c WorldEngine::CelestialBody::settingsChanged(WorldEngine::Settings*) + 56
2   org.zakariya.worldengine           0x0004a070 WorldEngine::SkyDome::settingsChanged(WorldEngine::Settings*) + 108
3   org.zakariya.worldengine           0x000317bc WorldEngine::World::settingsChanged(WorldEngine::Settings*) + 444
4   org.zakariya.worldengine           0x0003ae04 WorldEngine::World::initialize(PANSICore::ManifestDOMObject*) + 936
5   org.zakariya.worldengine           0x000383c4 WorldEngine::World::load(std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >) + 1612
6   org.zakariya.worldengine           0x000b04fc WorldEngine::ScenarioLoader::load(std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >) + 1484
7   org.zakariya.worldengine           0x000c36bc ScenarioRunner::eventAppInitialized() + 1072
8   org.zakariya.worldengine           0x00006928 -[GSApplication applicationDidFinishLaunching:] + 108
9   com.apple.Foundation               0x9293fad8 _nsnote_callback + 180
10  com.apple.CoreFoundation           0x90803010 __CFXNotificationPost + 368
11  com.apple.CoreFoundation           0x907fb0ec _CFXNotificationPostNotification + 684
12  com.apple.Foundation               0x92929ee0 -[NSNotificationCenter postNotificationName:object:userInfo:] + 92
13  com.apple.AppKit                   0x936ebf98 -[NSApplication _postDidFinishNotification] + 112
14  com.apple.AppKit                   0x936ebe84 -[NSApplication _sendFinishLaunchingNotification] + 92
15  com.apple.AppKit                   0x936eb9cc -[NSApplication(NSAppleEventHandling) _handleAEOpen:] + 264
16  com.apple.AppKit                   0x936eb574 -[NSApplication(NSAppleEventHandling) _handleCoreEvent:withReplyEvent:] + 92
17  com.apple.Foundation               0x92940ae4 -[NSAppleEventManager dispatchRawAppleEvent:withRawReply:handlerRefCon:] + 380
18  com.apple.Foundation               0x92940944 _NSAppleEventManagerGenericHandler + 92
19  com.apple.AE                       0x914f8960 aeDispatchAppleEvent(AEDesc const*, AEDesc*, unsigned long, unsigned char*) + 208
20  com.apple.AE                       0x914f87fc dispatchEventAndSendReply(AEDesc const*, AEDesc*) + 44
21  com.apple.AE                       0x914f8654 aeProcessAppleEvent + 284
22  com.apple.HIToolbox                0x931e8eb0 AEProcessAppleEvent + 60
23  com.apple.AppKit                   0x936e9cbc _DPSNextEvent + 856
24  com.apple.AppKit                   0x936e97a8 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 116
25  com.apple.AppKit                   0x936e5cec -[NSApplication run] + 472
26  com.apple.AppKit                   0x937d687c NSApplicationMain + 452
27  org.zakariya.worldengine           0x0003f6fc main + 764
28  org.zakariya.worldengine           0x0000304c _start + 340 (crt.c:272)
29  org.zakariya.worldengine           0x00002ef4 start + 60

Thread 1:
0   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x9000b268 mach_msg_trap + 8
1   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x9000b1bc mach_msg + 60
2   com.apple.CoreFoundation           0x907dbb78 __CFRunLoopRun + 832
3   com.apple.CoreFoundation           0x907db47c CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 268
4   com.apple.audio.CoreAudio          0x9145163c HALRunLoop::OwnThread(void*) + 264
5   com.apple.audio.CoreAudio          0x914513dc CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 96
6   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x9002bc28 _pthread_body + 96

Thread 2:
0   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x900551a8 semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 8
1   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x90071828 pthread_cond_timedwait_relative_np + 556
2   com.apple.audio.CoreAudio          0x91462794 CAGuard::WaitFor(unsigned long long) + 204
3   com.apple.audio.CoreAudio          0x914626a4 CAGuard::WaitUntil(unsigned long long) + 304
4   com.apple.audio.CoreAudio          0x914608e8 HP_IOThread::WorkLoop() + 852
5   com.apple.audio.CoreAudio          0x91460580 HP_IOThread::ThreadEntry(HP_IOThread*) + 16
6   com.apple.audio.CoreAudio          0x914513dc CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 96
7   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x9002bc28 _pthread_body + 96

Thread 3:
0   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x900551a8 semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 8
1   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x90071828 pthread_cond_timedwait_relative_np + 556
2   ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore     0x90bf4550 TSWaitOnSemaphoreCommon + 176
3   ...ickTimeComponents.component     0x99828b34 ReadSchedulerThreadEntryPoint + 5208
4   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x9002bc28 _pthread_body + 96

Thread 4:
0   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x900551a8 semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 8
1   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x90071828 pthread_cond_timedwait_relative_np + 556
2   ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore     0x90bf4550 TSWaitOnSemaphoreCommon + 176
3   ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore     0x90bfeff8 AIOFileThread(void*) + 520
4   libSystem.B.dylib                  0x9002bc28 _pthread_body + 96

Thread 0 crashed with PPC Thread State 64:
  srr0: 0x0000000000000000 srr1: 0x000000004200f030                        vrsave: 0x0000000000000000
    cr: 0x28004224          xer: 0x0000000000000004   lr: 0x0000000000049de0  ctr: 0x0000000000000000
    r0: 0x0000000000000000   r1: 0x00000000bfffde20   r2: 0x00000000003e2fe4   r3: 0x0000000000008914
    r4: 0x0000000000008864   r5: 0x00000000bfffde58   r6: 0x00000000ffffffff   r7: 0x000000000000006f
    r8: 0x000000000000006f   r9: 0x0000000000000000  r10: 0x0000000000000000  r11: 0x0000000000260a10
   r12: 0x0000000000000000  r13: 0x0000000000000000  r14: 0x0000000000000000  r15: 0x0000000000000000
   r16: 0x00000000bfffe0c8  r17: 0x000000000535511c  r18: 0x0000000005355120  r19: 0x00000000bfffe0e4
   r20: 0x00000000a4abad98  r21: 0x0000000000190000  r22: 0x00000000bfffe190  r23: 0x0000000005362280
   r24: 0x00000000002c0000  r25: 0x00000000bfffe0ac  r26: 0x0000000005354fc0  r27: 0x0000000005358704
   r28: 0x0000000000619010  r29: 0x00000000018f6a00  r30: 0x0000000000000001  r31: 0x00000000018f6a00

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0x92f73000 - 0x92ffafff com.apple.ink.framework 101.2 (69)    /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink
0x9300e000 - 0x93019fff com.apple.help 1.0.3 (32)    /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help
0x93023000 - 0x93050fff com.apple.openscripting 1.2.5 (???)    /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting
0x9306a000 - 0x93079fff com.apple.print.framework.Print 5.2 (192.4)    /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print
0x93085000 - 0x930ebfff com.apple.htmlrendering 1.1.2    /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HTMLRendering.framework/Versions/A/HTMLRendering
0x9311c000 - 0x9316bfff com.apple.NavigationServices 3.4.4 (3.4.3)    /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/NavigationServices.framework/Versions/A/NavigationServices
0x93199000 - 0x931b6fff com.apple.audio.SoundManager 3.9    /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonSound.framework/Versions/A/CarbonSound
0x931c8000 - 0x931d5fff com.apple.CommonPanels 1.2.2 (73)    /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels
0x931de000 - 0x934ebfff com.apple.HIToolbox 1.4.8 (???)    /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
0x9363a000 - 0x93646fff com.apple.opengl 1.4.7    /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/OpenGL
0x936df000 - 0x936dffff com.apple.Cocoa 6.4 (???)    /System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework/Versions/A/Cocoa
0x936e1000 - 0x93d14fff com.apple.AppKit 6.4.7 (824.41)    /System/Library/Frameworks/AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit
0x940a1000 - 0x94111fff com.apple.CoreData 80    /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData
0x9414a000 - 0x9420dfff com.apple.audio.toolbox.AudioToolbox 1.4.3    /System/Library/Frameworks/AudioToolbox.framework/Versions/A/AudioToolbox
0x9425f000 - 0x9425ffff com.apple.audio.units.AudioUnit 1.4    /System/Library/Frameworks/AudioUnit.framework/Versions/A/AudioUnit
0x94261000 - 0x94414fff com.apple.QuartzCore 1.4.8    /System/Library/Frameworks/QuartzCore.framework/Versions/A/QuartzCore
0x94467000 - 0x944a4fff libsqlite3.0.dylib     /usr/lib/libsqlite3.0.dylib
0x944ac000 - 0x944fcfff libGLImage.dylib     /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLImage.dylib
0x946aa000 - 0x946b9fff libCGATS.A.dylib     /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libCGATS.A.dylib
0x946c1000 - 0x946cefff libCSync.A.dylib     /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libCSync.A.dylib
0x94714000 - 0x9472dfff libRIP.A.dylib     /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libRIP.A.dylib
0x94734000 - 0x949e8fff com.apple.QuickTime 7.1.2    /System/Library/Frameworks/QuickTime.framework/Versions/A/QuickTime
0x94aac000 - 0x94b1dfff libstdc++.6.dylib     /usr/lib/libstdc++.6.dylib
0x94b90000 - 0x94bb1fff libmx.A.dylib     /usr/lib/libmx.A.dylib
0x963ec000 - 0x9642bfff com.apple.QTKit 7.1.2    /System/Library/Frameworks/QTKit.framework/Versions/A/QTKit
0x9745f000 - 0x9747efff com.apple.vecLib 3.2.2 (vecLib 3.2.2)    /System/Library/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/vecLib
0x97b95000 - 0x97c56fff libGLProgrammability.dylib     /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLProgrammability.dylib
0x97c81000 - 0x97c82fff libGLSystem.dylib     /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLSystem.dylib
0x97c84000 - 0x97c91fff com.apple.agl 2.5.6 (AGL-2.5.6)    /System/Library/Frameworks/AGL.framework/Versions/A/AGL
0x97cab000 - 0x97cebfff com.apple.glut 3.3.8 (GLUT-3.3.8)    /System/Library/Frameworks/GLUT.framework/Versions/A/GLUT
0x99813000 - 0x9a1e9fff com.apple.QuickTimeComponents.component 7.1.2    /System/Library/QuickTime/QuickTimeComponents.component/Contents/MacOS/QuickTimeComponents
0x9a3ff000 - 0x9a402fff com.apple.QuickTimeH264.component 7.1.2    /System/Library/QuickTime/QuickTimeH264.component/Contents/MacOS/QuickTimeH264
0x9b3b8000 - 0x9b3e6fff com.apple.audio.OpenAL 1.1    /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenAL.framework/Versions/A/OpenAL

It's not magic, it's Ruby.
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