Help Wanted: Graphic/Pixel artists to help with Graphics for next contest

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Post: #16
Carlos Wrote:Of course, since SpriteLib is GPL, we can use those 3. But I'd like maybe 2 or 3 more tilesets so we can have at least 5 or so games to pick from. The tiles in his sets are 32x32 I think. Of course, a dev is free to mix and match as they please.

aarku Wrote:edit: err... nevermind. It seems you're supposed to pick from a set of game designs and adhere to them. This contest sounds like slave contract work. Smile

That's not the impression I got. It sounds to me you are simply limited to predefined sets of artwork (and as Carlos stated, you can mix and match between them all). So, just because a sprite set has a bunch of planes doesn't mean you have to make a shoot-em-up... you could just as easily make a racing game, a memory matching game, a EV-like trading game, or even a FedEx simulator. Lots of possibilities.

This seems to be an attempt to try and put the focus more on gameplay/design instead of art. Laudible goals, but unless the artwork is decently high quality then the title might not be news-worthy (ie, impressive enough to have special articles on IMG about them). Is this the next mini-contest, or perhaps the theme for the next uDG?

In regards to the 2D vs 3D debate: either choose all 2D, or all 3D, or have two categories... one for 2D and one for 3D. 2D art is not inherently "bad", so it is just as viable an option. You might even get frogames to contribute some of his 3D artpacks (under a stricter, contest-only license)... would be good marketing for him.
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Post: #17
KittyMac Wrote:That's not the impression I got. It sounds to me you are simply limited to predefined sets of artwork (and as Carlos stated, you can mix and match between them all). So, just because a sprite set has a bunch of planes doesn't mean you have to make a shoot-em-up... you could just as easily make a racing game, a memory matching game, a EV-like trading game, or even a FedEx simulator. Lots of possibilities.
That's what I got at first too, then I read Eric's original post again.
ss2 cire Wrote:Each entrant will pick one game from a pre-defined list and make it. There should be graphics for 5-10 games.
The pre-defined list part. I think the contest would be great besides that. Now, back to vacation...
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Post: #18
I'd be more interested in seeing a contest based on top-down RPG tilesets. I think the potential for competition on a gameplay/mechanics and story level would be awesome. This also leaves room for 2.5D which allows for the eyecandy without skewing the results soley to being based on eyecandy.

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Post: #19
Let me summarize what I am striving for, so people can stop guessing. Rasp

The contest would require that all devs utilize the same graphic assets. These graphic assets would be supplied by us, for example, see the tilesets above. Sounds would also be provided. You are free to make any game you wish (providing that you use the allowed game assets.) Does it hamper creativity? IMHO, no. You can mix and max the sprites and use them in many different types of games. The bottomline is this:
With everyone utilizing the same game assets, who can create a better game? (ie who is a better programmer/game designer)

About 3D. Different engines, etc require different model formats, etc. So, 3d game assets wouldn't be supplied -- all art will be 2D. This however, doesn't mean you can't use your 3D-based engine. For example, you could use your 3D engine for scaling, rotating, etc.

For hardcore 3D-only people, I will say that there is a plan for a 3D-only contest next. Rasp
For people who are not keen on the idea.. simply don't participate.

My question is, if the "playing field" is level based on restriction on game assets, and the contest aims to find the best coders/designers amoungst you, how many will participate?

Cheers,

Carlos A. Camacho,
Founder
iDevGames
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Sage
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Post: #20
I'm in.

The idea kind of reminds me of Odyssey of the Mind hands-on spontaneous problems. (that's a mouthful) The kind of thing were you would walk into a room and hame 10 minutes to build something (balloon rocket, bridge, tower, etc.) with a certain characteristic that is measured, and all you get is a rubber hose, a paper clip, and a kitchen sponge. (you get the idea)

Of course it was OM, so the more you bent the rules without breaking them, you would get more points in your creativity score.

Did anyone else here compete in OM?

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Post: #21
Carlos Camacho Wrote:With everyone utilizing the same game assets, who can create a better game? (ie who is a better programmer/game designer)

About 3D. Different engines, etc require different model formats, etc. So, 3d game assets wouldn't be supplied -- all art will be 2D. This however, doesn't mean you can't use your 3D-based engine. For example, you could use your 3D engine for scaling, rotating, etc.

I just want to say that I think this argument is very, very flawed. A 3D engine is largely independent of the format used for 3D models. .obj is the lowest common denominator, and there are more powerful formats, such as fbx, which are widely useable. If not for a particular engine, a converter can be written with little effort.

Also, even games with 2D gameplay use 3D models nowadays to take advantage of the visual quality of dynamically lit, shaded, and textured objects, advanced blending in particle effects. A sprite set not designed for use with blending for particle effects, for example, severely limits the visual quality of the resulting games. On the other hand, trying to visualize 3D gameplay with sprites will typically result in something that looks horribly bad.

My fear is that the visual quality of all the games will be substandard by today's norms, so even games with excellent gameplay may be perceived as mediocre due to the stone age graphics style. Some modification of the graphics should be allowed, at least to support advanced compositing techniques.

If this contest is to be a short 2/3 week contest, these limitations may not matter much, as one wouldn't have time to do something more complicated anyway. The limitations may also lead to really creative use of the forced assets. But, I have my doubts.

Some less technologically stringent and more creative limitation, such as the famed vector contest, is a much better idea, IMHO.
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Post: #22
Carlos Camacho Wrote:With everyone utilizing the same game assets, who can create a better game? (ie who is a better programmer/game designer)

Well not everyone's a straight up programmer, a lot of people here are artists and use programming as a device, taking away one of the major creative elements of game development this way is removing the chances of a large fraction of the people that will (or would) enter.
Also prohibiting people from creating and using thier own graphics does not make it a test of who is the better programmer.

Carlos Camacho Wrote:My question is, if the "playing field" is level based on restriction on game assets, and the contest aims to find the best coders/designers amoungst you, how many will participate?
I'm sure a lot less people will get involved with such limiting restrictions seeing as a large part of the fun of writing a game is removed.

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Post: #23
When is this contest likely to be taking place?
It is definitly the kind of contest I would be interested in taking part in.
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Post: #24
Another type of asset that is very useful for games is audio. As many of you know I can do music for games and if there is a demand I could create a couple of songs for these games. I can also do sound effects, but I'm not very experienced with that.

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Post: #25
I dont think this idea makes sense.

"Can I draw a line?"
"No, it's not in the gfx set"
"Can i draw a pixel?"
"No, it's not in the gfx set"
"Well what if i take a sprite and scale it very very small, can i use that as a point?"
"Yes, as long as you actually do that. If you get caught drawing pixels you get banned for life."

In the end there is no real difference between "code" and "assets", since you can draw any graphics through code.

And apart from this problem, that tileset just plain sucks, I'd rather make a game with pixels only. (Ah, good old days when there were some serious tilesets on idevgames...)

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Post: #26
I doubt I'd enter a contest that I had to use a specific set of artwork for, especially if it's only 2D. I'm working on 3D graphics stuff right now (I'll soonly be releasing a couple tech demos of what I'm currently working on), and any contests that I enter I'd like to be able to incorporate that in. Of course, I don't want to enter any contest until I finish with what I'm working on now, so it probably won't be until uDevGames anyway. Rasp
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Fruity
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Post: #27
I don't see why so many people get angry over this idea.. I think it's great! Limitations spawns creativity.
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Post: #28
But not if it's too limiting. This contest idea completely bans artists from participating.

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Fruity
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Post: #29
diordna Wrote:But not if it's too limiting. This contest idea completely bans artists from participating.

well.. it's not like it's udevgames or something. Smile I know I can't participate either, I just don't understand all the complaints on this one. More of these small contests will come. Some might limit everyone to using Tiger, some might do other things..
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Post: #30
It completely bans all of your ideas if you want to do 3D. Annoyed If there were 2D sprites and 3D models (obj format would probably be the most accessible) both, I suppose I wouldn't be so opposed to it. Since I would treat a contest as a way to further advance my skills, and I have chosen 3D to be my forte, I likely wouldn't join if I was strictly limited to 2D graphics.
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