community project + contest idea

Apprentice
Posts: 18
Joined: 2004.01
Post: #1
hi all...

I've been toying around with the idea of combining a community project that would help novices with a game design contest. given that inkubator is currently kind of defunct, i think it would be reasonable to start up a project in which we create a very bare bones game engine*. the contest portion would be that people would have to use the engine we created in their games.

i mentioned the idea to carlos, and he seemed to think it was a pretty good idea, as did the people on the irc channel. though (as should be expected) specific implementation details are still very debatable.

the idea behind the creation of an engine (and not just the contest) would that it would allow people who are new to game development (but not programming) to get into it, and would also allow them to create a complete game without having to muck around in all the minutae. I know others have released their personal engines before, but i think their respective codebases aren't nearly as useful for the community, because they're either poorly documented (or written! *gasp!*), or they are too end-product-specific.

anyway, let me know what you think! :-)


-- david


* note that by "bare bones", i mean that the engine should support
- importing images (and using them as textures/static images etc)
- importing and using sounds
- basic sprite animation
- basic physics modelling (collision detection algorithms, particles, etc)
- basic 2D graphics
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Founder
Posts: 1,138
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #2
As I said to you, I would support this initiative as it helps me/us on several fronts:

1) Gives the community a contest to fill the void of uDevGames. This would allow be to shift uDevGames to start in early summer (i.e. June), while using this yearly contest to fill up the Fall community schedule.

2) It allows for a way to re-start Inkubator -- the concept was commendable, however without a strong leader, Inkubator couldn't be sustained. In a way, this contest can become the "new" Inkubator. (i.e. The Inkubator Contest - Helping to Hatch New Games)

3) Provides a means to help beginners, which I am always in favor.

I could see such a contest being in-between a 21 Days Later and uDevGames event. Perhaps two months is ideal, start to finish. Along with under six sponsors.

Methinks the most difficult part is having developers agree on the "engine." As some of you know, such a topic was brought up in our iDG Book discussions. If such a framework/engine could be completed, then it could help in that endeavor as well.

Cheers,

Carlos A. Camacho,
Founder
iDevGames
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Member
Posts: 567
Joined: 2004.07
Post: #3
I vote it to be in C, as not to offend anyone, and in either GLUT or SDL, because they are so much simpler then Carbon. I'm talking about OpenGL, of course Rasp

It's not magic, it's Ruby.
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Moderator
Posts: 592
Joined: 2002.12
Post: #4
Nayr Wrote:I vote it to be in C, as not to offend anyone, and in either GLUT or SDL, because they are so much simpler then Carbon.

This also has the added benefit of being cross platform which is not a bad thing.
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Member
Posts: 567
Joined: 2004.07
Post: #5
I agree, though I beleve it should be centered on mac instead of being crossplatform. That's whole 'nother topic.

It's not magic, it's Ruby.
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Apprentice
Posts: 18
Joined: 2004.01
Post: #6
I'm going to agree with the mac-only-ness. though i'm not a ~professional~ mac game programmer, i think it would be good for newbies to have a complete piece of "bare-bones "* code that demonstrates the correct way to design and implement image importing with quicktime (or whatever we using), carbon events, and structuring the OpenGL graphical bits of the engine.

anyway, that's just my $0.02.

-- david

* sorry to overuse the phrase, but i kind of envisioned the engine as an alternative to learning from apple's sample code (which is ANYTHING BUT minimalistic, unfortunately).
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Apprentice
Posts: 18
Joined: 2004.01
Post: #7
ok, uhm to actually RESPOND to the GLUT post, I don't think that bulding an engine around GLUT (which IS already an engine in its own regard) would be nearly as educational to the newbie programmer as one built around Quicktime, Carbon events, etc would be.

-- david
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Sage
Posts: 1,403
Joined: 2005.07
Post: #8
Why does it need to be educational to a newbie?
There will be ways anyone can get involved aside from understanding the entire engines code.
GLUT is an OpenGL utility toolkit not a game engine, for the game engine to use glut would be fine.

Sir, e^iπ + 1 = 0, hence God exists; reply!
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Moderator
Posts: 1,560
Joined: 2003.10
Post: #9
GLUT isn't really suitable for production code. We should build this around something more solid. I'm sure I'll have people loudly disagree with me, but my suggestion would be Cocoa internally, with a public C API. If we'd do it right, it would still be possible for it to be cross-platform; we'd just have to write a separate implementation for each platform. However, we wouldn't have to worry about that right off the bat, other than in the design of the public API.

- Alex Diener
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Member
Posts: 277
Joined: 2004.10
Post: #10
To much talk about GLUT lately Sneaky

From GLUT alot of my initial problems learning OpenGL spawned (not to mention some event code)

I say GLUT is a memory garbling cross-platfrom shmo.


to the main subject though.
TheGreatAndMightyEditorInChief Wrote:1) Gives the community a contest to fill the void of uDevGames. This would allow be to shift uDevGames to start in early summer (i.e. June), while using this yearly contest to fill up the Fall community schedule.
The idea is very good.
The main reason behind me not entering udev this year is because of the gap.

Global warming is caused by hobos and mooses
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Member
Posts: 567
Joined: 2004.07
Post: #11
hytmal Wrote:ok, uhm to actually RESPOND to the GLUT post, I don't think that bulding an engine around GLUT (which IS already an engine in its own regard) would be nearly as educational to the newbie programmer as one built around Quicktime, Carbon events, etc would be.

I don't knwo about everyone else, but when I started, I took one look at carbon and ran screaming. I don't think it's really appropriate for "newbies". If not GLUT, SDL (which I was leaning toward in the first place).

It's not magic, it's Ruby.
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Apprentice
Posts: 18
Joined: 2004.01
Post: #12
i've done most of my stuff in GLUT, too. I really don't think that Carbon is THAT hard... at least it wouldn't be if there were some decent examples out there. that's one of the points of the community-developed engine.

the engine should be developed by people who already know what they are doing, and be an example of the "right thing to do". why would we want an engine created by people who don't know what they're doing? :-)

re: GLUT, i'm going to agree with BinaraySpike. i think it's great for prototyping, but AFAIK, Carbon is a lot better structured and a lot more efficient, performance-wise.

-- david
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Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 2004.07
Post: #13
I agree with Alex on this one, Cocoa would be nice, with a public C API, I could possibly help with the Cocoa part because I already use it and it's easy to understand (mostly)

just my opinion Smile
Eric
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Member
Posts: 567
Joined: 2004.07
Post: #14
so in other words, we could reinvent SDL and GLUT Rasp both of them use Cocoa internally.
I think it's decided that we're NOT using GLUT, how about we concentrate more of what's gonna be in the engine, instead of what it uses.

It's not magic, it's Ruby.
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Apprentice
Posts: 18
Joined: 2004.01
Post: #15
ok, nayr, go ahead :-)

seriously though, what do we want to see in terms of features provided by this engine?

keep in mind that nothing should be too type/genre specific. i think the biggest question that comes to mind is whether it will be just 2D, or allow people to go 3D as well...

other than that i'd say that we should force the developer into one image format and one audio format. i have no idea what are good choices for these, given that the end result has to be open source. i usually go with PNG for image assets, myself.

anyway, back to packing. i'm moving back up to school tomorrow :-)

-- david
(LET'S GO STATE)
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