Oh, no, here we go again...

the fourth dimesion is time, accept it because it's not gonna change. End discussion.

Now, what I mean with 2D games with a 3D effect where basically Isometric games, like StarCraft and Diablo. I dunno if I would consider 2D games with 3D rendered sprites as pure 2D, but I guess they are.

Even Maelstrom has 3D rendered sprites, but I doubt you'd find anybody who would argue that those sprites made it a 3D game...

...I'd argue that Diablo isn't 3D (but I'd also argue that of id's Wolfenstein), as aside from in the perspective of the game, there's no usage of the third-dimension implied by that perspective in the gameplay – there's no opportunity to move on anything other than a two-dimensional plane* – if you want what I'd consider a proper isometric game, take a look at Head Over Heels, Rare's Knightlore, etc.

(*ignoring the 'ledges' where Blizzard have simply used the trick of implying a third-dimension by using a stair graphic to join together two planes on the same level, with free travel between the planes curtailed by a wall.)

What's wrong with Lolo III?
I'd play that if it had updated graphics... ;-)

First time ever everyone here seems to agree on a poll

PowerMacX Wrote:First time ever everyone here seems to agree on a poll

Indeed.. the question is, is it wishful thinking from a bunch of people who want to write 2D games?

Dan Potter Wrote:Indeed.. the question is, is it wishful thinking from a bunch of people who want to write 2D games?

I doubt that very much. If anything it seems that people are ignoring the 2D factor as most of the discussions in the chat room seems to be about 3D related items.

Ask yourself if the last independent / non accountant driven game you bought 2D or 3D? I know the last one I bought was 2D.

aaronsullivan Wrote:What's wrong with Lolo III?
I'd play that if it had updated graphics... ;-)

If my nintendo still worked I'd still be trying to beat it.
I'd buy it if it had updated graphics!

Anyway, I was just giving an example of a game that used non-3d like graphics that everybody
new about.

I just can't wait till Revolution comes out YOWZA!!!!
From FREE networking tracker with wi-fi to the screen-shots of some of the games there
making right now.... YOWZA!!!!

...most definately a market for 2D games, but whether that market is on the Mac is the debatable point...

It seems like most 2D coders are emigrating to the J2ME platform (or to the first wave of DS, and to a lesser extent, PSP titles – but whether those platforms continue with as strong a mixture of 2D and 3D is another point for debate.)

Whilst I'd like to investigate the J2ME platform, it seems to have all the problems of coding for Windows (sh_t compatibility) with none of the benefits (cheap, powerful boxen), and borrowing a few problems from the console platforms as well (distribution being tied to publishers.)

I was mostly joking.

I think it's also relevant to figure in what someone else above mentioned, regarding how you define a "2D game" vs a "3D game". Many games today being pushed out in very mainstream channels are fully 2D games, they just have a 3D interface. 3D objects, 3D rendering, movable camera, etc, but all the action is essentially taking place in a 2D plane. A great example is Amplitude for the PS2.

Really truly 3D games have always seemed somewhat confusing to me (e.g. Descent). Even most FPSes today are still basically 2D games with height/elevation changes.

Perhaps the real question is how well the market will still accept games based around bitmap-based visuals. Put that way it's more of a question of how much effort and polish you put into the interface and visuals vs the game play style. Seems to align a lot better with the reality of the game industry when you look at it that way.

Descent ! snif - so much fun.

Sure it was full 3D but also, in a sense, it was also a 1D game since levels consisted mostly of long tunnels/tubes.

Dan is right, many 3D games today have 2D gameplay at its core.

You guys like Lolo III? Hmm, very interesting...

I would like to see some 2D "cartoony" beat 'em up games on the mac. In the style of Darkstalkers or Street Fighter or Capcom vs SNK.

Taxxodium Wrote:I would like to see some 2D "cartoony" beat 'em up games on the mac. In the style of Darkstalkers or Street Fighter or Capcom vs SNK.

Did you try Monte Boyd's Dragon Clash?

PowerMacX Wrote:Descent ! snif - so much fun.

I suffered motion sickness after playing that game. I tried it with and without a 3D headset.