Amazing Torque Shader Engine-presentation at IGC '04

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I saw an IndieGamesCon-news bit at Inside Mac Games and followed links provided with it. I checked out the gallery and I saw this amazing screenshot of Torque Shader Engine. The even more amazing surprise came, when I found a QT-movie recorded from what they played at the show. What else can I say than it's pretty jaw-dropping. GarageGames have truly put an effort to supply game developers a cheap and powerful game engine.

That demo was run on an Athlon 64 and GeForce 6600 though.
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Rincewind Wrote:GarageGames have truly put an effort to supply game developers a cheap and powerful game engine.
And STILL without content creation tools for the Mac. I believe Torque has great value though. That QT movie of the shader demo is pretty impressive. I don't think they should charge so much more for it though. Shader technology isn't *that* difficult to make happen, and there just aren't enough users out there with programmable cards to justify going that way yet. I would be way more impressed if they had spent their development resources on taking care of the content development problems first.
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AnotherJake Wrote:And STILL without content creation tools for the Mac. I believe Torque has great value though. That QT movie of the shader demo is pretty impressive. I don't think they should charge so much more for it though. Shader technology isn't *that* difficult to make happen, and there just aren't enough users out there with programmable cards to justify going that way yet. I would be way more impressed if they had spent their development resources on taking care of the content development problems first.

Since they still haven't done that, I don't think they ever will. But at least we got Unity, which I'm really looking forward to Smile
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AnotherJake Wrote:I would be way more impressed if they had spent their development resources on taking care of the content development problems first.
Agreed.

I would be even more impressed if they could get the engine to run well on Macs in the first place. The demos stutter horribly on my machine which is well within the engine specs. I doubt the shader tech will run acceptably or at all on my Mac/GeForce3, not that I have to worry about that anytime soon - they say they will port it to OpenGL (i.e. Mac/Linux) when "a more solid [OpenGL] spec is available" Blink
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ashiedu
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I purchased the Torque license and compiled it. I've found the compiled app runs bettter for me than the demo. No hiccups. Wink

Not that there are Blender and other exporters for Torque, I can recommend the purchase of this engine. With the new light pack, it isn't even necessary to use DIF for interiors, so a DTS exporter is all you need.
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I estimate there is at least $10,000 in Torque licencenses collecting a year to three of dust on the hard drives of iDevGames users.

Maybe there are more Torque refugees we don't even know about.
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Well I bought Torque a couple of weeks ago and once Chromacell is out the door (planned end of 2004) I'll be starting on my first Torque project that I've already got designed with the intention of publishing it sometime around late summer / early autumn 2005.
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DavidJJ
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igame3d Wrote:I estimate there is at least $10,000 in Torque licencenses collecting a year to three of dust on the hard drives of iDevGames users.

Maybe there are more Torque refugees we don't even know about.

Hi, I'm David. I'm a Torque refugee Huh Relatively intelligent senior graphic designer (CSS, W3C and Javascript guru) but completely over my head with Torque. Wasted my money with that one (although for more serious programmers there's definitely something there).

And Revolution owner (Dreamcard, actually).

Looking intensely forward to Unity. Even if all I do is tinker with it and teach my gifted seven year old some stuff about computers. Now we'll get some simple fun things done.
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I'm learning more and more about Unity every day. While it does have much better mac support than torque ever will, artist who do not have any programming skills should not try Unity... or at least not go at it alone.

a few things about Unity:
1) while it has excellent resource handling, and things such as factories (for placing duplicates easily throughout levels), it still requires a good deal of programming for special effects, and gameplay. The good news is, they will ship with tons of near copy-paste special effects, plus their website will contain code repository for shaders, effects, and other tidbits. (they donate them, and users can donate their own).
2) as described by the developer himself: "Think of Unity as Final Game Pro vs iGame3D." (comparison of iMovie and Final Cut Pro). This is by no means an insult, but rather as where the level curve is. Most beginners cannot jump straight to final cut pro, and I deeply encourage Bill to continue more on iGame3D, cause there is a large niche waiting to be filled with his wonderful tool.
3) BETA TESTING IS NIGH!! Wink
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dannyngan
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Post: #10
Actually, there are Torque content creation tools for the Mac. There are DTS exporters for the Mac versions of Maya, Lightwave, and Blender. Xcode can be used for all the code-related stuff. Scripting can be done with any text editor (I have syntax modules for BBEdit 8 and SubEthaEdit on my website). The only thing lacking right now is a level editor, but that's always been a sore point for most Torque users.
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DavidJJ
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skyhawk Wrote:3) BETA TESTING IS NIGH!! Wink

Yes it is. Rolleyes
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dannyngan Wrote:The only thing lacking right now is a level editor, but that's always been a sore point for most Torque users.

The level editor is built into the example applications, at least it used to be, works great, I just can't convince Tobi to incorporate Torque code into iGame3D, else we'd have all that cool stuff like pressure brushes and editing levels while on a network, not to mention a publisher right out the gate.

Unity
skyhawk Wrote:as described by the developer himself: "Think of Unity as Final Game Pro vs iGame3D." (comparison of iMovie and Final Cut Pro).

Apple are you listening ???

I hope Unity works as fantastically as Final Cut Pro.
If iGame3D works anything like iMovie...shoot me. I've been struggling to make iGame3D like Final Cut Pro since the beginning. When Tobi and I worked up the scripting language the first thing i did was send him the Final Cut Pro Script documentation ( 18 MB PDF over 56K modem), but the way they do things in their interface is A) linear without logic gates B) missing that ever present 3rd dimension (ie extra controls everywhere under the sun) C) so beyond my present skills with Revolution its rocket science to my new found ability to make fire. My many attempts to implement those splined keyframes has amounted to a skorched earth policy for the window involved.



skyhawk Wrote:there is a large niche waiting to be filled with his wonderful tool.
LOL cough cough As cough attractive cough excuse me, my eyes are tearing, my side is splitting as that sounds...I think its in reality something like this. .1% of graphic designers, .004% of code monkeys, .001% of gamers, .01% of 3D artists, .00001% of script kiddies (JS,AS,Ruby,Lua,Transcript,etc), .00008% of curious download junkies.

LOL Really its a fairly tight slice of pie that we are trying to poke. LOL
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igame3d Wrote:LOL cough cough As cough attractive cough excuse me, my eyes are tearing, my side is splitting as that sounds...I think its in reality something like this. .1% of graphic designers, .004% of code monkeys, .001% of gamers, .01% of 3D artists, .00001% of script kiddies (JS,AS,Ruby,Lua,Transcript,etc), .00008% of curious download junkies.

LOL Really its a fairly tight slice of pie that we are trying to poke. LOL
I think you SERIOUSLY underestimate the curious download junkie. If people have a tool that makes it easy enough to make a game.... I think TONS would jump on it. cause.... EVERYONE wants to make a game, but they all want it to be Apple easy.
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DavidJJ
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skyhawk Wrote:EVERYONE wants to make a game, but they all want it to be Apple easy.

Precisely. 100% precisely.

skyhawk Wrote:I think you SERIOUSLY underestimate the curious download junkie. If people have a tool that makes it easy enough to make a game.... I think TONS would jump on it.

And some of us spend hard-earned $$$ to tinker as well. With the sincere hope we can create something simple for kids to play.
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skyhawk Wrote:I think you SERIOUSLY underestimate the curious download junkie. If people have a tool that makes it easy enough to make a game.... I think TONS would jump on it. cause.... EVERYONE wants to make a game, but they all want it to be Apple easy.

Apple easy tends to mean, it does one thing only, ie, edits video, plays/burns your mp3's, keeps your calendar crap, makes dvd's, mixes music, does motion effects for $1,000. A game editor that is "apple easy" would be "makes only an FPS", "makes only a platform game", "makes only <insert genre here>", which is such a thing that would make me drop the project or using such a product like fairly quick, maybe not depends on the genre I guess (Tomb Raider editor was a blast..but where is the future in it?).

I would say I don't underestimate the download junkies, most will download because it exists, but never actually use the product, thats the way people are. Same with beta testers: "I really really want to beta test this, where can I download?" <>>>RIGHT here!<<<<> ....crickets, the sound of water evaporating. Then there are the people who never drew more than a stick figure, or whose coding experience/desire doesn't extend more than their email address and password into Mail.app, and they want to make World of Warcraft right out of the box, by themselves, before their next dose of Ridalin is required.

The seriously committed "I'll send this dev my user feedback", "I'll make a Marathon level", "I learn Flash and make a shooter", "I'll join a dev team and stick to it like nails in a coffin" kind of designers are really very much a rare breed, and in that small spectrum, the wavelength of users for each of the individual game savvy products is even slimmer.

Is this a jaded developer rant? Sorry, I've run into so many flakes in the past two years, its like going to a clubs meeting girls, taking them home and finding out 99.9% of them are frigid beyond the darkest shadow of space or have no pulse.

...or something like that......
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