iPad programming...Please be nice...

Nibbie
Posts: 1
Joined: 2010.05
Post: #1
I am a Microsoft VB junkie for it's ease of use. PERIOD. Agree or disagree, it doesn't matter. I now have an iphone and iPad and DAMN, I love them. I know there are IDE's that you guys like and even love. But from a VB standpoint is there anything out there that will at least ease the transition? PLEASE don't judge and say go cold turkey Mac IDE. Top of my list would be a VB translation IDE to get my own personal apps on the iphone/ipad up and running quickly.
I appreciate any help you guys can give. MS to Mac convert?.....I very well could be.
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Moderator
Posts: 3,577
Joined: 2003.06
Post: #2
Terabull Wrote:But from a VB standpoint is there anything out there that will at least ease the transition?

No. We're all pretty much stuck with Xcode (or make to some degree) and your choice of some mixture of C/C++/Objective-C. No easy way in I'm afraid.
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Luminary
Posts: 5,143
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #3
Section 3.3.1
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Nibbie
Posts: 2
Joined: 2010.05
Post: #4
You can use GLBasic.

You still need to compile the program on an MAC.

Don't worry about section 3.3.1 as GLBasic convert it's code to c++ before compiling (there is an article about this on the GLBasic sites).

I would however reccomend learning ObjectC and use a framework like Cocos 2d (or a 3d one).

Happy iPhone coding on your PC with Basic Smile
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Apprentice
Posts: 19
Joined: 2010.03
Post: #5
You've done the hard part, you can code. Now all you need to do is learn a new IDE (XCode) and a new language. Objective C will seem weird at first but it's a good language and not too hard to learn. There are many online references to get you started. Interface builder allows you to build iPhone/iPad interfaces using drag and drop editing. It's part of XCode and quite similar to Visual Studios interface tools.

I'd suggest writing a small app for OS X using XCode/Interface Builder and Objective-C. If you get the hang of it then it's only a small step to target an iPad/iPhone. Remember if you're not used to a Mac or XCode each will take a few weeks to get used to so persevere.

The reference to Section 3.3.1 from OneSadCookie (incase you don't know this already) refers to no interpretation layers being allowed in an iPad/Phone app so there are no VB emulation layers or anything like that.

Good luck.
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Founder
Posts: 1,138
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #6
t's too bad because I think Realbasic (http://www.realsoftware.com/) would have been a perfect start for you.

Carlos A. Camacho,
Founder
iDevGames
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Luminary
Posts: 5,143
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #7
Ketil Wrote:Don't worry about section 3.3.1 as GLBasic convert it's code to c++ before compiling (there is an article about this on the GLBasic sites).

Section 3.3.1 forbids this.
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Moderator
Posts: 3,577
Joined: 2003.06
Post: #8
Steve Jobs recently shared his thoughts on Flash, which also gives some pretty good hints as to why they won't allow things like this. Basically, it boils down to them not wanting 3rd parties allowing other developers to make things on iPhone which aren't up to Apple's ideas of how things should look and feel. They have some pretty good arguments for this, but personally I'm split on this issue. I understand why they want developers to strictly adhere to the tools and methodologies they prescribe for traditional apps, but I disagree that this should apply equally to immersive content apps, such as games.

All this being said, while you must obey section 3.3.1 if you want to distribute on the App Store, there's nothing really stopping one from developing their own apps Ad Hoc however they wish. However, as long as Apple doesn't list that as an acceptable exception, we can't really recommend it here, nor can we offer much, if any, support. Wink
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⌘-R in Chief
Posts: 1,260
Joined: 2002.05
Post: #9
If you're making a game, you basically won't be using Interface Builder at all, you'll be writing lots of code. That and given that the code can only be Obj-C/C++ according to 3.3.1, there's absolutely no alternative to going cold turkey and learning the right way to do everything.
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Member
Posts: 26
Joined: 2010.01
Post: #10
Get a cross-platform engine which compiles under Visual Studio and Windows Wink Then develop there in C/C++ until you are ready to test... Although if you're more of an editor person rather than a programmer, you should give Unity a whirl, the C# scripting support should look at least slightly familiar and it has a lot of functionality.

In terms of working in VB, Section 3.3.1 is very slightly ambiguous - if you can find a cross-compiler which works as an independent app, so as a pure code transformation step, you should in theory be ok. If you can find an off-the-shelf VB->C/C++ cross compiler that approach might work for you, but the problems with standard libraries will be such that I doubt it's a good route to take, and you'd still have to write an Obj-C wrapper around the cross-compiled code.
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Luminary
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Post: #11
Section 3.3.1 says something like "originally written in C, C++, Objective C, or JavaScript and executed by the built in WebKit". I don't think that's ambiguous.
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Member
Posts: 269
Joined: 2005.04
Post: #12
Kerome Wrote:Get a cross-platform engine which compiles under Visual Studio and Windows Wink Then develop there in C/C++ until you are ready to test... Although if you're more of an editor person rather than a programmer, you should give Unity a whirl, the C# scripting support should look at least slightly familiar and it has a lot of functionality.

I highly recommend avoiding Unity for new projects until all the intricacies of 3.3.1 are figured out. It's a pretty obvious violation at the moment and you don't want to spend months on a project only to have it not get approved by Apple.

If you want to develop for the iPhone OS, buy a Mac, download Xcode, and use Obj-C. If you don't want to do that, have fun developing for Android.
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Moderator
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Post: #13
Bachus Wrote:If you don't want to do that, have fun developing for Android.

Android isn't fun to develop for. I tried it a couple weeks ago.
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Member
Posts: 269
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Post: #14
AnotherJake Wrote:Android isn't fun to develop for. I tried it a couple weeks ago.

Exactly. Wink
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Member
Posts: 26
Joined: 2010.01
Post: #15
Going by the letter of the law, most of the comments above are probably right to counsel against cross-compilers or using Unity.

However, from a practical point of view, it's likely to all come out in the wash. Clause 3.3.1 is specifically aimed at Flash on iPhone and similar major platform abstractions, and it's unlikely that it will ever be strictly enforced. The number of apps that violate it is just too high, many websites estimate it at 30%+ and that may be conservative. Anything that includes Lua or Python components, or even uses Bison/YACC to generate a parser, or something like networking auto-generated code, could be deemed to be in violation, and that includes a lot of library files which people may be using without knowing what's inside.

Similarly, I don't expect Clause 3.3.1 to ever be fully clarified by Apple. It's their fallback weapon to ban any generic platform that they don't like, whether it be Flash, Silverlight, or some other play-interactive-content-and-display-UI framework that becomes too popular and starts to become a barrier and prevents them from interacting directly with developers. It sucks, because it's another uncertainty in the whole process of submission where people can pick on an app and go "bam, no, refused".

But I'd think long and hard before I let it stop me from developing the way I wanted to develop. At the end of the day things like scripting languages exist for a reason, which is to do with programmer efficiency, and it'd be very unlikely for Apple to try and kill off those parts of the developer's arsenal, as long as they are used with sensitivity and care in the context of the platform.
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