Are today's gamers too soft?

Hog
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Post: #61
BeyondCloister Wrote:How on Earth do you find time to finish a game such as NWN in two days? Or do you mean non stop play for two days?

well sort of. first of all i meant the part without the expansions, and also i didn't care to read all the text or do all of the side quests.

what the games in the old days had though were situations where you get stuck and just keep searching untill you've had enough. then after sleeping over it and spending time thinking about it (like in school instead of listening to the unimportant stuff the teacher babbles) and you got enlightened, or otherwise when you were bored and couldn't think of anything else to do, you had an incentive to return to the game.
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Post: #62
c_dev Wrote:well sort of. first of all i meant the part without the expansions, and also i didn't care to read all the text or do all of the side quests.

What is the point of playing a game if you do not play it properly? Not reading all the narrative in the game and not doing all the sub plots means you've not actually completed the game.
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DM6
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Post: #63
BeyondCloister Wrote:What is the point of playing a game if you do not play it properly? Not reading all the narrative in the game and not doing all the sub plots means you've not actually completed the game.

Oh, I think there's definitely merit in playing a game in an unorthodox way. F'rinstance, GTA3, while a pretty mediocre game all around, is usually most interesting when it's played not according to the rules, even when the player's just walking around the city streets like a pedestrian instead of taking out mob bosses. The speed run/timeattack crowd talk about "aesthetic forms" and "sequence breaks" which are accomplished apart from the proper structure of the game.

-Duncan
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Sage
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Post: #64
Have to agree with that. Best part of GTA3 was seeing how fast you could go from nothing to six stars right outside the police station, only using weapons stolen from police cars. Smile Quite difficult after the FBI come in. GTA:VC ruined that sport with the damn tire puncturing...

Or, to repeat my earlier post in this thread, beat the original Zelda without getting a sword. Much harder.
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Post: #65
BeyondCloister Wrote:What is the point of playing a game if you do not play it properly? Not reading all the narrative in the game and not doing all the sub plots means you've not actually completed the game.

What does "actually completed the game" really mean? Do you mean that to say that one has completed a game you must've done it to 100%? If you have completed it according to the game(ie end screens, credits etc) then you have completed it. It's the only logical way, since otherwise one has to adopt a special completed to each game, since they are so diffrent. Sure, he might not have "experienced" NWN but he has completed it.

Oh, sorry if it sounded rantish, didn't mean it to.

"Gameplay Uber Alles. And if you can make it psychedelic too, great!" - Jeff Minter
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Post: #66
What I was meaning that he was complaining that he had completed the game in only 2 days and then said he had not actually played all of it. So if he had played all of it it would have lasted much longer than 2 days. Not reading all the text and doing the sub plots is like saying you have read the book by turning to the back page to see who dunnit!
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Post: #67
arekkusu Wrote:Or, to repeat my earlier post in this thread, beat the original Zelda without getting a sword. Much harder.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I've always wondered how this would be possible... Without the sword, at the beginning of the game you can't kill anything. So you need some other sort of weapon. The boomerang springs to mind, but to get that you have to kill some moblins in the first dungeon, and it doesn't kill very many things anyway. Bombs are the next thing that come to mind, but they're very limited in supply, and how would you get them in the first place? The only way I can think of is to go to one of those caves where you get free money (would have to be one that's accessible without bombs or the candle -- upper right corner of the map, maybe?), and find a shop that sells bombs. But then if you use up all your bombs without getting more, you'd pretty much be screwed, wouldn't you?

I suppose maybe you could do you best to string yourself along with bombs until you manage to get the bow, and assuming you can scrounge together enough money to buy arrows (the gambling game?), that would become your primary weapon. Am I getting warm? I suppose I'll just have to try it sometime...

Alex Diener
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Hog
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Post: #68
BeyondCloister Wrote:What I was meaning that he was complaining that he had completed the game in only 2 days and then said he had not actually played all of it. So if he had played all of it it would have lasted much longer than 2 days.

well, what i mean is that i visited every place in the game and got to end of the main plot. sure i played some of the sub quests occasionally and tried out the different roles afterwards, but there was nothing really new to explore and the plot wasn't really good enough for my likes.
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Post: #69
ThemsAllTook Wrote:Sorry to go off-topic, but I've always wondered how this would be possible... Without the sword, at the beginning of the game you can't kill anything. So you need some other sort of weapon. The boomerang springs to mind, but to get that you have to kill some moblins in the first dungeon, and it doesn't kill very many things anyway. Bombs are the next thing that come to mind, but they're very limited in supply, and how would you get them in the first place? The only way I can think of is to go to one of those caves where you get free money (would have to be one that's accessible without bombs or the candle -- upper right corner of the map, maybe?), and find a shop that sells bombs. But then if you use up all your bombs without getting more, you'd pretty much be screwed, wouldn't you?

I suppose maybe you could do you best to string yourself along with bombs until you manage to get the bow, and assuming you can scrounge together enough money to buy arrows (the gambling game?), that would become your primary weapon. Am I getting warm? I suppose I'll just have to try it sometime...

Alex Diener

You can't actually win- you need the Magic Sword to kill Ganon at the end, but I've always assumed that if you can get to him without a sword, you're probably good enough to kill him with it.

You're pretty much right on. Those money-moblins, the bow, and the wand will become your best friends.

But on the topic, I like how I have the option of beating a game very quickly or spending hundreds of hours on sidequests, or any point in between. Sometimes I don't have time to do them all. Sometimes I do, but I'm getting tired of the game and just want to finish it. Sometimes the sidequests just plain suck.

I'd like to think I've "completed" FFX and GTA Vice City, but not going to dodge 3 billion lightning bolts in a row to get a special weapon, and I'm sure as hell not going to agonize over those god-forsaken paramedic missions.

Justin Ficarrotta
http://www.justinfic.com
"It is better to be The Man than to work for The Man." - Alexander Seropian
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Hog
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Post: #70
ThemsAllTook Wrote:I suppose maybe you could do you best to string yourself along with bombs until you manage to get the bow, and assuming you can scrounge together enough money to buy arrows (the gambling game?), that would become your primary weapon. Am I getting warm? I suppose I'll just have to try it sometime...

unless there is somekind of trick to gambling i don't know of, gambling isn't an option since you only lose all your money to it, and if your playing without dying you can't just reset and start off just right before you lost your money. (also there is a gambling game just west to the place where you start off if you bomb up in the top center, you can get bombs in dungeon 2 without having to kill anything). shooting arrows also wastes gold which you won't get back by killing stuff. the bomerang only kills bats and those never drop anything except for one-time drops triggered when killing all enemies in a room.
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Post: #71
c_dev Wrote:unless there is somekind of trick to gambling i don't know of
MATH3338 - Probability
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Post: #72
Can you kill the knights (erm, the ones you can't hit from the front) with non-sword weapons? I seem to remember arrows having no effect, and same with bombs. Does the wand hurt them? Can you get the wand without having to kill any of them first??

I think the Zelda challenge is to not get the original sword -- but can't you go and get the other swords once you have enough heart containers? Because like you said, one guy you certainly can't kill without the magic sword is Gannon.
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Hog
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Post: #73
skyhawk Wrote:MATH3338 - Probability

according to probability you should end up with about 0 rupees per round gambling ( if you have a 1/6 chance each for -40, 20 or 50 and a 1/2 chance for -10 ).
also if you start out with 10 rupees chances are 2/3 that you will end up with 0.
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Hog
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Post: #74
DaFalcon Wrote:Can you kill the knights (erm, the ones you can't hit from the front) with non-sword weapons? I seem to remember arrows having no effect, and same with bombs.

bombs do hurt them if they are placed correctly.

DaFalcon Wrote:Does the wand hurt them? Can you get the wand without having to kill any of them first??

getting the wand does not require to kill knights, but is still pretty difficult.
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Sage
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Post: #75
There are a few caves under statues that can be pushed with Moblins inside that give you rupies, You can use that money to buy a candle, and then burn down a pile of trees and enemies to get enough money for the blue ring, bow, bombs, food, potions, etc.

All of the enemies except Ganon can be killed without the sword, it just takes a long time until you get the wand.

There's actually a FAQ written up about this now. Of course I did it in 1987 or so... Wink

OK, end of off-topic.
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