ALT: Step 1: I Am a Noob

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Post: #31
jabber Wrote:...Also, keep your eye out for the much anticipated METAL 2.0.

Um... maybe you want to just try TNT instead.
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Pheonix
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Post: #32
Daniel_Lurie Wrote:Um... maybe you want to just try TNT instead.

TNT doesn't have windowed mode, is much slower, and costs $25 more.
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Post: #33
Metal 2.0 is 12 months late, or is it 18 months, I lost count.
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Post: #34
TNT is not slower with sprites. It is slower drawing circles and lines, but since you won't use them it's not a problem. It's quite fast actually with rotations, scaling, transparencies and scrolling. If you don't want more than 640*480 it's perfect. I think it is overall better (there is no doubt higher quality games are made in TNT than metal, for some reason.)

Moreover it is more friendly and still easier, and has a nice IDE.

It costs 25$, but you can use it unlimitedly for free (you just can't make "builds"): when (in about 1-2 months) you'll have finished your first game and want to put it on the net, then you'll want to register.


By the way the main problem with starting game programming IMO is that programming "per se" is boring, so if you can't make something move on the screen right the first day it's hard to find motivation (at least, I don't find it).


In TNT to make something move up and down with the keys takes 10 lines of code.

In C and Allegro (a game programming library) about 30 lines.

In Cocoa and OpenGl, I don't know, I never managed, but I guess around 100 ;-P

Off topic:
And you'll have to grasp somewhere what "linking a library" is, since nobody will tell you, and you will think "ok, so I copy and paste this code in a file and then compile it it should work... and it doesnt!!! Because you have to go into the secret options of the editor and write something it in a secret place for it to work! Man it took me two days (24h*2) to get that... In the C manuals they just tell you : to include a library simply #include it in the code... argh!!

©h€ck øut µy stuƒƒ åt ragdollsoft.com
New game in development Rubber Ninjas - Mac Games Downloads
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Post: #35
Najdorf Wrote:I think it is overall better (there is no doubt higher quality games are made in TNT than metal, for some reason.)

I beg to differ, Matteo. With the exception of your game and Danlab's early ones, I have seen very few releases done in TNT. Whereas I could name a couple dozen in Metal.

Najdorf Wrote:Moreover it is more friendly and still easier, and has a nice IDE.

No argument there. Metal can barely be considered an IDE.

Najdorf Wrote:In TNT to make something move up and down with the keys takes 10 lines of code.

In C and Allegro (a game programming library) about 30 lines.

How is Allegro, BTW?
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Post: #36
Najdorf Wrote:In Cocoa and OpenGl, I don't know, I never managed, but I guess around 100 ;-P

ha! more like.... hmm, 5. I've done it. Almost as easy as TNT once you know how. And i've done both

Alex
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Post: #37
Allegro is nice. I used it a bit this year to start learning C. I had fun making vector demos like fireworks and gravity between particles and a snooker/biliards demo (managed to write a good physic system!). Anyway I used it on a PC, but there also is the Mac Port by Angelo Mottola, it *should* work.

It is obviously faster than TNT in calculations and drawing lines and circles, though not SOO much for scrolling and sprites. It also takes about 2-3 times the code to do anything.

The only thing that puzzled me is that I could not find games that looked better than the best TNT ones... most are done in low res (320*240...) and 256 colors and look amateurial... and seeing 640*480 is a bit an exception. This is convincing me that "power is nothing without control".

By the way some guys use both allegro and opengl :"AllegroGL", where you can use allegro for things such as timers and input, while opengl for 3D graphics.

BTW, which do you think is the best Metal game? The only good one (graphically) I've seen is Marin's Shootem'up (not that I searched much). Which is the most "complete"?

©h€ck øut µy stuƒƒ åt ragdollsoft.com
New game in development Rubber Ninjas - Mac Games Downloads
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Post: #38
Najdorf Wrote:I think it [TNT] is overall better (there is no doubt higher quality games are made in TNT than metal, for some reason.)

Since Metal is free, every gamemaker wanna-be seems to make their first game with it. That's why when I see that ugly "console window with green text Blink" ) at the begining of a game I think "Oh... noooooooooo!!!!!! There should be a warning: Made with Metal!!!!!!"

No, not every game made in Metal is bad and not every game made on TNT is good, but as somebody pointed out, you can use TNT to develop your game and if you think your game is worth it, pay the registration price to build a binary. That seems to act as some sort of "filter"...

That being said, nothing beats the performance of OpenGL accelerated sprites & a C variant.

Using SDL is pretty easy to get a basic game up and running in a short time. If you already know C, you can get something moving on the screen (and responding to keyboard/mouse control) in 2 min.

Also, about the "library" issue, SDL automatically installs project templates, so you don't need to tweak weird options in Xcode to get it to work.

And... it's free Wink !
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Post: #39
PowerMacX Wrote:"Oh... noooooooooo!!!!!! There should be a warning: Made with Metal!!!!!!"

Here! Here!
Contact your congressman, warning labels are a must!
What if a kid accidentaly overdoses on Metal?!?

oh, the humanity!

PowerMacX Wrote:That being said, nothing beats the performance of OpenGL accelerated sprites & a C variant.

Yes!

PowerMacX Wrote:And... it's free Wink !


Likewise!
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Post: #40
Najdorf Wrote:The only thing that puzzled me is that I could not find games that looked better than the best TNT ones... most are done in low res (320*240...) and 256 colors and look amateurial... and seeing 640*480 is a bit an exception. This is convincing me that "power is nothing without control".

They must be very old examples. Back in the early DOS days EVERY game was 320x240.

Najdorf Wrote:BTW, which do you think is the best Metal game? The only good one (graphically) I've seen is Marin's Shootem'up (not that I searched much). Which is the most "complete"?

Back in the day, Gadget Pong impressed me. Also, later versions of Chaos3D were pretty cool.
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