Meshwork - Texturing a character help!

nickdabner
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Post: #1
I am having a nasty time getting UV mapping of my character. I am trying to do it with one texture and it is causing me nightmares. Getting the texture to wrap around the character properly is the problem - for example, I cannot get the head to work at all and he ends up with 3 faces rather than one.

I have uploaded a screenshot here. I have also provided the meshwork file complete with texture here.

It looks pretty stupid, but I spent most of the weekend on it and got nowhere. Bones are a little issue as well, but should be able to handle them ok. It my first character model, so perhaps someone more learned than I will be able to provide some words of wisdom.

Use the model for anything you like if it is useful to you. Th anks in advance.

Nick
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Posts: 10
Joined: 2003.06
Post: #2
Jeff Quan has outlined some techniques that he uses and has posted the info at this site.
http://www.geocities.com/jeffq_cnet/Meshwork/index.html

It appears that he works from the texture and then creates a model from it. Which seems backwards to me but he does get some pretty good results. I haven't tried his technique yet because I still getting up to speed on the coding side of it. The tutorial on pinned mapping may be useful to you.
-Jim
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Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 2003.04
Post: #3
I think you best bet is planar mapping and Two textures instead of one.

Thats how I avoid the strangeness of meshwork U/V mapping. Seems to work that way, if not a little imperfect.
I'll admit U/V confuses me to hell in general.

Checkout Dancer Saver

Open the package contents. Check out the texture and the model. You'll notice the texture won't appear in the meshwork file. I avoid that resource stuff at all cost.

Also check out http://www.bobbosoft.com
Coalesce might make your life easier, it doesn't support Meshwork textures but he has a project for learning his format to add to a game engine.
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Member
Posts: 446
Joined: 2002.09
Post: #4
A trick from the Quake1 days is to flatten your mesh and turn some polygons so you can use planar maps from the front and back - i.e. make sure every polygon is in full view from either the front or back. You then have to somehow get those UV's back onto the original mesh (which may or may not be possible in Meshwork, but editing the file directly may work). This is basically the same technique that igame3d and Jeff Quan elude to, but note it usually isn't very efficient as it can/will waste huge amounts of texture space, and it's difficult to reuse texels for symmetrical polys.

OR - You might want to try manually editing the UV's with 3DMF mapper <http://www.pangeasoft.net/files/>. Much more work, but will give much better results.

OR - I think Wings3D <http://www.wings3d.com/> has some UV tools that are probably worth checking out.

Also - I wouldn't spend to much time on the texture at this point. Get a good UV map first. Chances are your existing texture will be scrap once a new set of UV's are created.
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Posts: 715
Joined: 2003.04
Post: #5
Yeah you can't modify the vertices at all once you U/V map with meshwork, you lose the mapping entirely, then must start from scratch.

Use several textures.

The jeff quan tutorial has a gingerbread man which is like almost 2D, thats no help on a totaly 3D humanoid.
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nickdabner
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Post: #6
Thanks for the help guys.

I was hoping to translate Jeff Quan's tutorial using his gingerbread technique, but it was just too difficult with a fully 3D model. I also looked at Wings3D, but couldn't see support for 3DMF, so left it.

I am actually fairly happy with the vertex positions, so I shouldn't need to change them, but found it difficult to disconnect UVs.

I think the method to use two textures or more is probably the best way to go. Hopefully there will not be a speed hit. Does anyone know if I copy a texture from one Meshwork material into another, if the texture is cloned rather than copied? Will try 3DMF mapper, Dancer and Coalesce when I am back on my mac.

My actual reference point, and the reason for persistence with single texture maps is the Bob model from Glam at http://www.idevgames.com/content/download.php?id=142 . The author obviously knows his stuff, but I think I need some more practice.

On the point of doing things backwards, I dont really know how that would work. Same with the Quake modelling, as I dont think there is a straightforward way to "flatten" or unroll a model.

BTW, using a 512 x 256 16 bit texture. Would most people use something similar for 3rd person characters?

Nick
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Posts: 446
Joined: 2002.09
Post: #7
Quote:Originally posted by nickdabner
I also looked at Wings3D, but couldn't see support for 3DMF, so left it.

You'd have to use some intermediate format that both wings and meshwork can import/export - They both support 3DS, PovRay and VRML - IIRC.

Quote:Originally posted by nickdabner
I think the method to use two textures or more is probably the best way to go. Hopefully there will not be a speed hit.

Two textures will usually be slower than one, but it shouldn't matter too much for simple scenes.

Quote:Originally posted by nickdabner
On the point of doing things backwards, I dont really know how that would work. Same with the Quake modelling, as I dont think there is a straightforward way to "flatten" or unroll a model.

There really isn't a straightforward way to do UV mapping - some apps can help a great deal with the initial unwrapping of a mesh, but you really just have to get in there and move verts by hand - it will often take longer than creating the mesh.

Quote:Originally posted by nickdabner
BTW, using a 512 x 256 16 bit texture. Would most people use something similar for 3rd person characters?

Should be fine - 512x512 and 256x256 are pretty common sizes, some newer games use 1024x1024 but that's usually overkill IMO.
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nickdabner
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Post: #8
Quote:At 8:46 PM +1000 8/11/03, Nick Dabner wrote:

> >> There is a post on idevgames which outlines my problems.
>>
>> Do you have a URL?
>>
> > http://www.idevgames.com/forum/showthrea...eadid=4481
Wow, there is a lot of misinformation in that thread! I can't seem
to post, so please post these corrections for me:

1. Jamn suggested that Jeff Quan starts with the texture and then
makes the model. I've worked with Jeff for a long time, and I am
quite sure that he does not do that. He does the model first. Then
he texture-maps it, usually by starting with a standard mapping (e.g.
planar) and then hand-tweaking the UVs.

2. igame3D suggests that Meshwork U/V mapping is strange. But I
believe it's quite standard -- UV is pretty much UV, no matter what
editor you use.

3. Frank C. suggests manually editing the UVs with 3DMF Mapper, but
essentially the same functionality is built into Meshwork nowadays
(that's what the Texture Map window is for). You shouldn't have any
need for 3DMF Mapper anymore.

4. igame3D also says "you can't modify the vertices at all once you
U/V map with meshwork, you lose the mapping entirely, then must start
from scratch." This is utterly untrue. I'm not sure what he's
thinking of, but it's certainly not the case. If you're using
automatic texture mapping (e.g. planar), then as you move the
vertices around, their UVs are updated appropriately. If you're
using pinned-mode texture mapping, then as you drag a vertex around,
its UV stays with it. If you delete a vertex, then of course that
one is gone, but the other vertices retain their UVs just fine.

This last one is the worst; if you'd correct these misconceptions
among the iDevGames folks, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
- Joe
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