What kind of game do you want to play on the Mac?

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Post: #121
Quote:Anyway, I personally can't stand Metal
Sad

"Most nutritionists say that Twinkies are bad. But they're not, they're very very good."
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death_himself
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Post: #122
Sorry, just realised I can't really edit my last post, because it son the previous page and no-one will know...so anyway. I figured that some Americans might not know what elite is cos it never got released over there (I doubt it though, its a pretty big game (not in size, in popularity), it'd be hard to miss it). Anyway, so elite is the game escape velocity was inspired by, it was originally made for the BBC Micro and had wire-frame models, t'was in 3D and the universe was generated randomly from a seed, you could trade and there were a few missions as well, obviously there's the other stuff such as the ability to buy new ships and get better weapons and so forth, oh, and it had a nice way of docking, you sort of had to match the speed of the spin of the space station. Oh and it had a great combat thing, you just didn't know when your opponents would turn or whatever, it was good for it's time, i prefer it to ev, it has a much bigger universe and emphasise is on the trading aspect, unlike in EVN which seemed to be alot shorter and was more linear.

Here's the elite page of one of the creators http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/ , I refuse to give the page of the other one because he is a malevolent sack of shit. Look about on it, you'll be able to find a java version in the link section Smile , its quite good, except with me the controls are strange, kindah too-sensitive, so its impossible to play.
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Post: #123
Hmm uDevGame 2002 had "Bob2" which is a space shooter, no trading, just shooting.

I think I remember the dev posting "Bob3" in the works on his site, but maybe I just imagined that.

If you want to play EV in 3D check out ...uhm...
Vega-strike
you can find it at versiontracker and source forge.
It's open source so you can learn a trick or two from it as, well as maybe joining forces with the VS team to give it whatever you think it might lack.

I must say it sure is a cool looking universe in that game.
Lots of controls though, so I tended to get my butt kicked when it came to fighting...so I cheated..gave myserlf instaneous hyper space capability..haha...noone could catch me!

Did the same in EV NOVA...none of that floating around ever so slowly screaming "But I thought they fixed the hyper space engine!!!"...just zap..zoom...system to system superflight.

Oh and of course there is free, multiplayer, kicks butt once you got some credits: Vendetta by Guild software
Have a blast!
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death_himself
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Post: #124
Thanks igame3D, but, I don't want to play EV in 3D, I want to play an updated version of elite Smile . I felt EV lost the spirit of elite, it was so easy to just capture the best ship in the game by stealing it under the nose of whoever was disabling it, and the universe was small, trading wasn't really a very big feautre, not like in Elite, it seemed to be all about doing the same missions over and over until you could get that nice new weapon or whatever, and bounty hunting never really was that fun, not like in elite. Perhaps it is because EV's combat is very arcade like, I don't know. I have to say, discovering those new worlds with those coloured ships in EVO was real fun, EVN seemed to be alot linear and kindah put me off the series. Sorry, going off-track here Smile. Shame none of them are for OS9 Sad . I weren't looking something full of technical brilliance using the latest technology, thats why i suggested it for idevgames, because I think ti could really capture the spirit of elite, for some reason, when games go big and commercial, they become alot more linear.
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Post: #125
Quote:Originally posted by death_himself
Shame none of them are for OS9


Get used to it. OS 9 is dead.
Devs who hang onto it can forget about a growing user base, and any kind of support or recognition by Apple.

Direct quote from Apple to me, re: iGame3D Pro "looks good, but you will have a better chance of getting it on Apple's developer ang games web pages if you drop any reference of OS 9. OS 9 is dead."

Sure enough, I killed reference and support for OS 9 and had two glorious weeks of linkage from their games page.
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death_himself
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Post: #126
Why do people keep telling me to get used to OS9 being dead? What, pray tell, is that meant to mean, exactly? Just because something is unlikely to be on OS9 does that mean I can't say a shame it isn't? What exactly am I supposed to do about it? People say that to me and others as if we are meant to just get OSX there and then, even if it isn't actually very viable or more likely possible. OS9's userbase may not increase anymore, but there still is one, one that contains quite alot of people who aren't a part of the OSX userbase and won't be for some time. Is carbonising an app really that much hassle? I perfectly understand keeping it OSX, if say, it wouldn't run on older macs, but there are so many that would, and I just think that developers should either carbonise it, or increase the minimum specs and forget about OS9, not sit in the middle where you don't get any older mac users or better graphics. Hope I'm making sense. You see, udevgames would be perfect for developing carbonised games, because of the three month limit games don't usually end up with high minimum specs.
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Post: #127
I think one problem is that Cocoa is so much cooler/better than Carbon. Who wants to write event loops anymore?

Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfurled beneath the clear blue sky?
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Post: #128
Has nothing to do with the specs, and more to do with support issues, time spent on users that have not upgraded in 4 years is time spent not developing any new software. Time spent dealing with old API's is time spent not learning the new ones.

Apple does not want developers supporting OS 9.
Users staying in the OS 9 world, do not improve Apple's sales figures, and do not buy OS X software and therefore are not supporting developers efforts to move forward.

Why can't you get OS X?
I just saw 600mhz ibooks for like $750.
Thats about $80 a month across 12 months.
Same thing with the G4 eMac, or the latest iMac (for a bit more). Apply for an Apple loan.

Once you go X you never go back.
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Post: #129
Quote:Originally posted by death_himself
Is carbonising an app really that much hassle?


First off, you're using the term "carbonize" (or "carbonise" if you prefer Smile ) wrong; to carbonize a program means to port a Classic program to the Carbon environment to gain OS X support. Now that that's out of the way...

Yes, it can be difficult (or, in many cases, impossible) to add OS 9 support to a Carbon app; many of the APIs in OS X don't exist in OS 9, and vice versa. For example, an OpenGL game might have to use DrawSprocket for fullscreen instead of CGL and InputSprocket for input instead of HID, and any reasonably modern features of the graphics card would have to be disabled under OS 9. Any code that uses CoreFoundation APIs would have to be rewritten, and if the program uses any Cocoa or UNIX code it probably couldn't be ported at all without extensive rewriting. On top of all the API differences, supporting OS 9 would require additional debugging time to test out the different code paths and fix any other differences between the operating systems, all of which adds up to quite a bit of time spent supporting what is, for all intents and purposes, legacy technology.
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death_himself
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Post: #130
Well, it mainly has something to do with me not having enough money...I've just finished building my PC and I need new clothes...I want nice new underwear damnit Sad . ONLY $80 a month? Gagh, thats like, alot. I'm 16 and neither I nor my parents could afford that, I'm trying to get a job, but I can't spend any of the money I make from it, I need to save so i can move out some day and the government will stop giving me money because I'm not going on to further education (which is why I built the pc while I could, because I know it'll last).

Anyway, going off-topic. You miss-understand what I meant about specs. Say someone has just made a game, it can run on a Bondi Blue imac, but it can't, because this bondi blue imac doesn't have OSX, now, what exactly is the point of making a game that can run on low spec machines if you don't make it for an OS that can also run on these low spec machines? I just don't understand it, they have two options, make the game better graphically and with better AI and so forth by making it for higher spec machines, or, make it for OS9...and they choose neither. For example, Fallout 2, why damnit, WHY???

I perfectly understand why apple wants to stop developers from developing from OS9, its how most companies work. Its just the scenario above I don't understand.
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death_himself
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Post: #131
Quote:Originally posted by Mazilurik
First off, you're using the term "carbonize" (or "carbonise" if you prefer Smile ) wrong; to carbonize a program means to port a Classic program to the Carbon environment to gain OS X support. Now that that's out of the way...

Yes, it can be difficult (or, in many cases, impossible) to add OS 9 support to a Carbon app; many of the APIs in OS X don't exist in OS 9, and vice versa. For example, an OpenGL game might have to use DrawSprocket for fullscreen instead of CGL and InputSprocket for input instead of HID, and any reasonably modern features of the graphics card would have to be disabled under OS 9. Any code that uses CoreFoundation APIs would have to be rewritten, and if the program uses any Cocoa or UNIX code it probably couldn't be ported at all without extensive rewriting. On top of all the API differences, supporting OS 9 would require additional debugging time to test out the different code paths and fix any other differences between the operating systems, all of which adds up to quite a bit of time spent supporting what is, for all intents and purposes, legacy technology.

Oh, okay, thanks for the explanation Smile . Yes, silly me, about the carbonise thing. Well, games companies could at least stop annoying me and start making their games for the lowest-spec machines that can run OSX, if that makes any sense.
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Tycho
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Post: #132
I thought Bondi Blue iMacs ran OSX.
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death_himself
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Post: #133
Quote:Originally posted by Tycho
I thought Bondi Blue iMacs ran OSX.

They can, but need a RAM upgrade, run OSX slowly (even without all the graphical niceties) and because newer, OSX only apps require more power they also need a bigger hardrive so they can still run OS9 and therefore apps which will run on lower specs. I'd be quite happy running OSX slowly on my mac though, but can't.
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Post: #134
Quote:Originally posted by death_himself
I want nice new underwear damnit Sad . ONLY $80 a month?


Skip the underwear and clothes, get a new mac, and never leave home. Smile

Priorities man priorities.

You think that PC is going to last you?
Sure until Doom III comes out and it won't run on that PC.
Or until you have to reinstall Windows, becuase you wanted to install Apple's Quicktime but MS breaks your whole system because you want to use competitor software.

Why worry about OS X or OS 9 if you have a winbox?
The $80 a month for a new Mac = 14 $5 games from the PC bargain bin a month. Enough games to keep you busy I'm sure. Assuming your not reinstalling windows or troubleshooting the graphics card, reformatting the hard drive.

Hmm those could be game objectives in uDevGame, "find the graphics card that works in your box", "find a motherboard that works in your box", "escape the blue screen of death", "located the missing .dll", "rise to the top of the PC IT department while your company goes bankrupt from IT maintenance costs!", "find a game that actually runs on your machine!".

What could the game be called? "OSQuest", "Windows Fantasy MCVIII".

Hey since you have a PC, go out and learn some coding on from one of the billions of game dev sites for Windows.
Its an advantage you have over die hard Mac users.

"oh dell-io, oh dell-io , where for art though dell-io, buyest my old G3 for the price of a new gateway PC"

Smile
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death_himself
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Post: #135
Well, I don't plan on being able to run the newest games...but even to run the games I'm running on my pc, on a mac, I'd have to pay above 1k . But I really bought it for apps, new messenger programs etc. seem to be OSX and windows only, and it bugs me. And as you said, programming, I plan to learn whatever you call windows' thingie, and the great thing is, I'll be able to carry on learning new PC technologies without having to upgrade for a long long time, and when I do actually upgrade, thats exactly what I'll do UPGRADE, not buy a whole new machine which if it were a mac would cost in the region of £1500. I can't explaining my reasoning very well, I guess I'm annoyed at seeing 'for windows 98+ and OSX' everywhere and knowing the former option is a possibility. Sorry, going off-topic, bit of a crappy post this. And I've had no troubles with my PC.
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