Sex, death and games

Post: #31
Some other notes about girls in games.

Given the option to play male or female character, I take the female, its just easier on the eyes to sit through 40 hours of game play with a cutie than it is to look at another Duke Nuke 'em butt.

Parasite Eve portrayed the female as just a girl in her regular everyday detective clothes, she was sensual in her face and motion in the cut scenes, which carried out through the rest of the game.

Lara Croft's wardrobe's are sensible, except in the snow levels..there she is running around in shorts. People can comment on her chest size all they want, but these are the same people who would comment on a real woman's real large chest, which would make that woman feel degraded.

Final Fantasy characters, good and evil and NPC, perfect example of not taking things too far any direction. Also there is a love interest in the plot lines, which totaly makes that game and its cuts scenes moments of emotion and not just, oooh eye candy. I forget the girls name (I renamed them all when I find them), but when she's about to bite the bullet in space after 20 hours of play..I was on the edge of my seat....better than a soap opera.

A note on Lara Croft, she doesn't have relationships, if you ever read her biography from Tomb Raider I, or developers talking about her, you would know that she is essentially insane.
Thats right, she may look hot, but spending a few hours with her would scare your manhood back to boyhood. She might make a good match for Bruce Wayne for a night or two, but then he'd have to go into a hunt/bondage episode because she is hell bent on stealing things.

Other fine female characters are the girls from resident evil. No blatantly sexuality there, even when you get the spiffy cute wardrobe bonus.

Ok now for some game characters that one would not expect.
But these characters actually have sex, or so I assume.
Not in game. but outside the game...they are people
Brittany Spears, Spice Girls, and the Olson Twins!!!!
Oh lets not forget Julie Strain of FAKK 2.
(the comic of which that is based on had extreme graphic sexual situations)

Last but not least, that wanton wench, Ms. Pacman, wearing nothing but a bow!!!

oh if you want to portray sex in game without being explicit, base it on reality, and use the
same methods that film uses.
Eye contact, closeness, pillow talk, high contrast and shadows, switch from a kiss, to the sun rising over the sleeping lovers, or a romantic embrace the pushes the lovers out of the scene, or some other tasteful technique. To show the vampire conception mentioned above, use sound and innuendo...that is what the ENTIRE bite of the Vampire is all about...its about Penetration.
So think about it...the beating heart (vampires don't beat..only hers), you could show the rushing blood, the woman revealing herself -cut- his naked back, the dilation of her pupils...darkness, her sighs, his breathe, a kiss, a silhoutte of the pair entwined, then the bite. Study a few traditional vampire movies, like from Hammer films, you'll see how they were trying to get the audience aroused.

I do believe at this point in time if you were at any point to show graphic nudity or sexuality, even for a 15 seconds, that is all the recognition your game will ever get, all it will be reviewed on.
Sad but true.
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Post: #32
All the discussions about how to show vampire sex tastefully are worthwhile, but in the end you're still just trying to depict sex tastefully in a movie. Just because the movie is part of a game doesn't mean it isn't still a movie - as skyhawk pointed out, this is essentially just sex for cinematography.

In my mind, the important question is how to work sex into a game, with all the interactivity (etc) that implies. But then I don't know how anyone might do thatÖ

Skyhawk, you may have a point about "sacred and beautiful", but if you just substitute the phrase "really important and special, from our privileged human point of view", then the sense doesn't alter much. From a human point of view, the creation or destruction of another human is a big deal... call it "sacred" or not, you can't deny that there's a lot more emotional charge in a film of two people shagging than there is in a film of two deer shagging.

I suppose it's that these subjects have the ability to mess with our heads more comprehensively than many othersÖ and reasonably enough, Dr.Light wants these subjects to be taken seriously. I personally believe that it's good to trivialise and make fun of everything (in moderation), on general principles... but when I'm not doing that, I can agree that sex is, in some objective sense, more important than (say) bowling.

I think I had a point there for a while, but it's slipped just beyond my grasp. I'll shut up for a bit now.
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Post: #33
What? A programmer, and game programmer, an artist, at that, cannot find the beauty and wonder in all of creation? Look all around you, everything you see is a marvel, whether you think it was created by some infinite being(s) or evolution or even aliens from another planet! For instance, imagine if we could unlock the secrets of DNA encoding and storage. It might make your hard drive about the size of a walnut(at a wild guess), and you'd never have to buy another one, ever. The encoding technology alone would probably allow us to never buy another hard drive anyways. Can you not see the beauty which surrounds us? The way in which it sustains and regenerates its enviroment, habitat, and creatures within it? What is NOT beautiful and marvelous about it, rather, is the question one should ask!

Man is special among all this specialness because of his intelligence. Can a dog or a dolphin construct a computer or a skyscraper? Since all of creation is beautiful and wondrous, man holds an even greater position among the animals, yet at the same time is dependent upon them as well for food, work, and even companionship.

Formal argument:
All of life is beautiful, it bears no resemblance to the actual meanness which we have assigned it or think of it with. Reflection upon its wonders and complexity provide enough proof for anyone to be satisfied with.

And, Skyhawk, you ought to know that the only good reason that I am replying is that you are such a great beta tester. Smile As for the latest version of Microbian, I am working on another one, so don't waste time with that last one.

w_read: yup, that was in fact meaningful.

"Most nutritionists say that Twinkies are bad. But they're not, they're very very good."
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Post: #34
RTTP: If you game needs sex or it won't be good, don't make it
If you think sex will make your game better I probably won't like your game

About gore:
There is a cretian point whare it is absurd but I really don't have anything to argue about this. Gore should have a control in the control pannel.

Gore level 0 guys fall over dead and fade away.

Gore level 1 guys get hit, blod sprays and they fall in a heap with a puddle of blood aka wolfenstein 3D

Gore level 2 Guys get blowen into a million bloddy limbs and bones AKA Duke Nukem X

conclusion: I don't need sex to make my game good, Thats what the plot is for.
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Post: #35
Quote:Originally posted by Dr. Light

Man is special among all this specialness because of his intelligence. Can a dog or a dolphin construct a computer or a skyscraper? Since all of creation is beautiful and wondrous, man holds an even greater position among the animals

"For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins, because he had achieved so much- the wheel, New York, wars, and so on- while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man- for precisely the same reasons." --Douglas Adams
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Post: #36
If I thought that sex, or violence, would somehow improve a game just by their presence, it'd probably be a crap game at heart anyway. But if they were relevant to the situation, then there shouldn't be any dogma keeping them out.

If you feel it's ok to have different levels of violence-porn, why not different levels of sex-porn? Entirely sexless plots tend to feel a bit empty (just like entirely conflict-free plots), when real humans are involved... so why not a Porn level system? Not a good name, indeed, but:

Porn level 0: chaste kiss and fade to black

Porn level 1: heavy snogging and occasional visible nipples

Porn level 2: gruesome closeups lasting far longer than necessary

After all, this caters for all players' desires in the same way as yoursÖ and I don't see how you could argue with such a system, unless you hold that seeing an erect penis is somehow worse than seeing a shower of guts. If so, please explain how...
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Post: #37
Better Idea: No sex!

The common conclusion that sex=love is seriosly flawed. Would you want to marry a person that wouldn't want to marry you if you couldn't have sex? No! You love a person for their personal traits and sometimes their flaws. a good plot shoudn't have a sex=love=happyness. It should have love and hate on more than "I love you because you look good and are Good in bed" It should have to do with their personality.

I don't like games that focus on sex. Thats the way I am and always will be. I see no reason why
Quote:Porn level 1: heavy snogging and occasional visible nipples
would make a game better.
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Post: #38
My point is that I don't see how Gore level 1 will make a game better either. They're equally gratuitous from one point of view, and equally relevant from another. I tried to copy your gratuitousness-ratings as closely as possible:

x level 0: essentially-abstract signifier of x

x level 1: essentially-realistic portrayal of x

x level 2: over-the-top and utterly gratuitous portrayal of x

And I'm certainly not saying anything like sex = love. However, sex is an important and wonderful part of love, and you can't just cut it out of the equation. You don't have to include sex, and you probably shouldn't unless you have a good reason to do so... but it seems a bit silly to suggest that such an important aspect of being human should be inadmissible, and I certainly can't accept that there will never be a good reason to include it.

[edit - spelling]
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Post: #39
Man is special?
For his war, his genocide, his backstabbing, his pollution, his rape of the world and the life on it?
His obsession with his own image and his own actions? For his lust and his greed?

The invention of the a dirty horrible thing for this planet, Silicon Valley is the #1 source of toxins in California. Recycled electronics is a noxious carcinogenic thing being carried out by the absolute poor of Asia...involving acid and fumes for the little bit of gold and silver in it.

Man is no more special than cancer.

I'm sure Cancer would argue the point that they have more specialness than the animal whose life they devour, if it could.

Ants are more important than human beings. Humans spread disease and ants clean the world of bacteria. Bees are more important than humans, without them humans could not take a single breath. Birds like wise.

Humanity is a plague.

Perhaps its time to make games that turn the a virus wiping out this species instead of the usual reverse theme. Play an alien race bent on wiping the dirty biped from the planet.
Play a woodland animal being hunted by the ape-ish menace.
Play a rainforest trying to grow in the face of Beef production and herbacide sprays and gasoline firewalls and drug wars.

Perhaps we ARE only a game.

Praise the Developer. Oh mighty Keystroker of The Kosmos!
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Post: #40
So, man doesn't have a special place, he will one day die, and does nothing AT ALL that is worthwhile? Well then lets just all kill ourselves since there is nothing to look up to! See where it goes?
For heavens sake man, get a grip! There IS more good in this world than evil, but its always the evil that ends up on the news!Rolleyes

"Most nutritionists say that Twinkies are bad. But they're not, they're very very good."
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Post: #41
Quote:Originally posted by w_reade

In my mind, the important question is how to work sex into a game, with all the interactivity (etc) that implies. But then I don't know how anyone might do thatÖ

how about giving the player exact instructions on when to be cuming and when to be holding back...

seriously now, too much sexual content heavily distract the player from plot, gameplay and any other elements of the game (must not even be that much to be distractive). You would not put that into a game unless it is the thing your game is about (in that case it would be just cheap porn).
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Post: #42
No, no, NO! Sexual content != cheap porn, dammit.

Why should a game about sex be automatically assumed to be cheap porn?

Books, films, and paintings have all been created that deal with sex maturely, tastefully, and meaningfully, and don't feel the need to coyly hide the facts of the matter. Why should sex in a game be different? I feel that games have as much potential to illustrate the human condition as well as any other artform, and so they should be able to deal with the same breadth of subjects as the other artforms.

If I were playing Strip Tetris, that would indeed be distracting and pointless, but that's because there's no reason to have sexual content in tetris. That doesn't mean that sexual content is always just a distraction - you might as well say that visible nipples on a painting of a nude distract the viewer from the arrangement of the pigment-smears and the beautiful framing.
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Post: #43

Dr. Light, I had an interesting set of conversations with a Mormon guy a year older than I am at college. He seemed bright enough, but had a serious stumbling block with his inability to decipher the purpose that he had been put on this world for.

"Why am I here? What am I supposed to do here?", he asked.
"'cus you are, and you're supposed to find a woman and make two kids. Other than that, you're on your own," I replied.

He took this badly, under the impression that I thought we were, tangent to your conclusion, supposed to literally make to kids and twidle our thumbs until our race became a plague.
This is not the case I was trying to bring up. Instead, humans can do whatever they want, from hunting deer to designing nuclear power plants (which the U.States NEEDS more than those ****ing coal and oil plants) to exploring distant worlds. This is a free-form play that has rules known as Physics.

Games are fun because they allow us to bend those rules. We can lug around enough guns and ammo to level a tank batalion, and jump around like a mutant fairy. We can rule the universe, beat the undead Nazi abominations back to their resting places, save the girl, or bring peace to Middle Earth. It's not about what we're SUPPOSED to do, it's what we WANT to do.

My aquantence didn't get that, and he's probably wondering why he can't get a job with good grades, an AA, and A+ certification.

I think sex is overrated, as-is. ::thwaps c_dev::
IMO, keep it in the stories, unless you want to sell USB briefs with your "game". Which would just be groan-worthily wrong.

-Sta7ic Matt
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Post: #44
if one truly believes that all sexual content is cheap porn... oh man, their honeymoon is goign to be quite hilarious. I can see them getting into bed. The guy puts on his cheesy music. "Bow-chicka-wow owwww" the wife immediately gets into position and they go on for 8 hours. The guy being a jackhammer and the wife being the toughest cement block there is.

Also, we must distinguish between sexual content, and stuff that is just sensual. Just because it gives you a boner, doesn't mean it is sexual content. Any game with female characters should include at least a little sensuality. Even if it is just a beautiful face, and alluring look, or a nice skirt that shows legs up to ya! Grin Delicate women need to be portrayed delicately, and I find most delicate women to have a strong sense of sensuality around them, whether they mean to or not.
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Post: #45
Quote:Originally posted by Sta7ic
...unless you want to sell USB briefs with your "game". Which would just be groan-worthily wrong.

USB... briefs.... *jots down* this place is GREAT for ideas Grin
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