Pro Gaming Tools (why use C?)

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Post: #1
I' m a stupid beginner, so dont take this post too seriously.
I just wanted to say, if there was a really cool professoinal application specifically designed for games (such as DarkBasic fo Win), that is roughly as fast as C, why the hell single game designers should loose their time writing stuff with C?
Writing in an easy specific language takes less time and most of all gives you much more control of the global thing (if you want to control the particular little stuff, you risk to forget the main game).
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DoG
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Post: #2
It may be true for small projects, but as they get larger, you will find that the C family of languages has the biggest versatility, and you can do just about anything if you invest enough time. Also, a lot of frameworks are available in C which can make your life easier.

And I don't believe there is a basic as fast as C. C compilers are developed by large teams, and they surely do more and better optimizing than the smaller BASIC developers.

And for me, I got more and more accustomed to C and find it no longer overly confusing. I, too, began with BASIC. Fortunately, I learned C++ right after it, without going to painful PASCAL first. I had to learn PASCAL later anyway, but I am happy I wasn't spoiled by it.

I have no doubts that BASIC is better for throwing things together quickly, but I am also sure C++ is quite advantageous in the long run. But, don't take what I say for hard currency, as I don't have much experience with the modern BASICs.

- D.G
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Post: #3
My big argument towards learning and using C/C++ has been that if you ever want to get a professional job programming, they will require you to know it. So why put it off?
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Luminary
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Post: #4
Java programming jobs outnumber C++ jobs these days.
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DoG
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Post: #5
Quote:Originally posted by OneSadCookie
Java programming jobs outnumber C++ jobs these days.


It's mostly just web stuff. I would like to see the one who makes an operating system in java!

- D.G
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Luminary
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Post: #6
It's mostly business apps, database front-ends, &c.

You probably wouldn't use Java for an OS, but it's suitable for most other arenas, and far better suited to business apps than C++.
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DoG
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Post: #7
Quote:Originally posted by OneSadCookie
It's mostly business apps, database front-ends, &c.

You probably wouldn't use Java for an OS, but it's suitable for most other arenas, and far better suited to business apps than C++.


You are right, I should not have said web, but it boils down to cross-platform client-server interactions, I guess. The database stuff is good for java, but it sure isn't too nice for all but the simplest games. But, then again, you could even do games in matlab.
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Post: #8
Quote:Originally posted by OneSadCookie
It's mostly business apps, database front-ends, &c.

You probably wouldn't use Java for an OS, but it's suitable for most other arenas, and far better suited to business apps than C++.


Personally, I'd disagree.

I work for a very large and successful corporation, and while there's Java development going on, a large number of Java projects have had to be retrofitted with other solutions when the Java solution failed.

Our expense reporting application was done in Java. Six months after launch, the Java was dropped due to horrible performance and lots of bugs. The app is done strictly in HTML now. It's 10 times faster and doesn't lock up your browser 2 out of 3 times.

Our Java apps that we ship to customers have that great Java cross-platform capability we've all heard so much about - "Supported only on Windows 2000 using IE 5.1 or Netscapse 4.0.2"

Etc, Etc.

I'm not saying that you're not correct that there may be more Java apps out there or that Java doesn't have its uses. But, in my opinion, companies are throwing money down the Java rathole because it's an "in" thing. Many of the apps will eventually be recreated in another language.

Wade
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henryj
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Post: #9
Java's great for games. Have a look here (http://www.popcap.com/macmain.php) Most of there games are Java.

In fact Java on OSX is as good as any other language. I've been playing around with it lately and I'm seriously thinking making it my primary dev language. It's so damn easy to do stuff. The only down side is 3D stuff is missing.
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Luminary
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Post: #10
There's Java3D (slow) and GL4Java (fast). Who says 3D is missing Smile
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henryj
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Post: #11
Quote: But, in my opinion, companies are throwing money down the Java rathole because it's an "in" thing. Many of the apps will eventually be recreated in another language.


This is a rash comment but if your having that many problems you're doing it wrong. A significant amount of modern business applications are developed using Java. I'm not talking applets, but full blown applications. It has taken over from smalltalk and nextstep as the dev system of choice for large scale software systems.

Quote:There's Java3D (slow) and GL4Java (fast). Who says 3D is missing


Java3D isn't available on the mac afaik and last time I looked GL4Java had vanished.
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Luminary
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Post: #12
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Quote:This is a rash comment but if your having that many problems you're doing it wrong. A significant amount of modern business applications are developed using Java. I'm not talking applets, but full blown applications. It has taken over from smalltalk and nextstep as the dev system of choice for large scale software systems.

There's no question I'm drawing a generalization.

But, I'm not talking a small company here. I'm talking about a large corporation, that does software and hardware development as its core business. It's one of the more successful companies in the world.

So despite having a large and competant development staff, significant problems with Java applications still exist. Performance problems occur, important applets work only in one or two browsers, platform-specific issues arise, etc.

That's not to say that the applications don't work or improvements aren't made.

However, the assertion that Java is a Holy Grail of development and makes development so much easier and faster than C++ or Objective C is simply wrong.

Why has Java become the "system of choice" over Smalltalk and NextStep for large scale software systems? Because it's so much better than those two languages/systems? Surely not.

Java has likely become the "system of choice" because of its wide availability on the PC platform. It's possible Objective-C and the Nextstep tools would be in Java's place today had it been introduced on the PC from the start. All the hype you hear about Java might have happened to Objective-C. But let's also be honest - Java also got where it is through and unfulfilled promise. Part of the reason Java generated so much hype was "write once, run anywhere." That's why everyone wanted to learn Java. But as we all know, that's probably the least fulfilled promise of Java. Java developers wanting to deploy their applications on multiple platforms spend significant time handling platform-specific issues.

In short, I think Java is often choosen due to its buzzword status, rather than any real technical justification. C++ or Objective C could often be used for the same project without significant differences.

That is in no way to infer that I think Objective C or C++ are "better" than Java. All three languages have their strengths and weaknesses. I just think Java gets a *lot* more credit than it actually deserves.

Wade
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Post: #14
Quote:Originally posted by OneSadCookie
Java programming jobs outnumber C++ jobs these days.


I'd argue though that the interesting jobs are C/C++ as most (note I didn't say all) Java stuff is backend server side programming or database reporting. YUK!

I do some java programming at work, but the interesting stuff is all C, C++ and Objective-C
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Post: #15
Quote:Originally posted by GoodDoug
I do some java programming at work, but the interesting stuff is all C, C++ and Objective-C
Where do you work that you get to do ObjC programming?
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